BDSM 101
********** 9/13/98 4:33 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
Sue | no meeting NS?
*Night Spirit* | yes there is
*Night Spirit* | always slow getting started :)
Sue | does it start at 8:00?
*The Inspector* | hello all
*Lynn* | hugggs NS <s>
*Lynn* | huggggggggs TI <S> kiss
*The Inspector* | huggs Lynn
*Night Spirit* | yes and usually most are here at 8:08
*The Inspector* | hi NS
Sue | Hi inspector
*The Inspector* | hi Sue
Sue | Hi Lynn
*Night Spirit* | hugs Inspector and Lynn
*Lynn* | huggs lynnette <s>
lynnette | Hello everyone
*Lynn* | hi Sue
lynnette | hugsssss Twin....TI
*Night Spirit* | hiya lynette
*The Inspector* | hi lynnette
Sue | Hi lynnette
lynnette | hello Sue, Night Spirit
Sue | have fun everyone!
Sue | bye!
*The Inspector* | bye Sue
lynnette | bye Sue
*Night Spirit* | bye Sue
*Lynn* | bye Sue
lynnette | how was your voice this morning Lynn? <ggl>
*Night Spirit* | ok any good rumours besides Clinton rumours?
*Lynn* | oh twin..it was kinda cracky lol
Michael P. | afternoon all
lynnette | lol
*Lynn* | huggs Michael
*The Inspector* | shakes Michael
lynnette | hello Michael....hugsssss, Sir
Michael P. | NS, just sent you another file
Michael P. | Shakes Hugs and hi's
*Night Spirit* | ah geez Michael <ggl> thanks :)
Michael P. | 9s)
Michael P. | fingers aren't working
*Night Spirit* | small group tonight
*The Inspector* | so far
Michael P. | I'd like to talk to you about the site when we're
| finished, I've had some
Michael P. | requests for the same files and would like to know
| if you'd want your site
Michael P. | linked. I'm not handing the files out to other net
| sites so far.
Michael P. | What is the topic going to be?
*Night Spirit* | well this is a good subject bdsm101 hope more pop in
Michael P. | oh yes
GrandPaDeSade | Hello all
*Lynn* | we had a small turn out this afternoon, NS, too
Michael P. | good afternoon GPDS
*Lynn* | huggs Grandpa
*Night Spirit* | Michael yes I do, go for it :)
lynnette | hello Grandpa
*The Inspector* | shakes GPDS
GrandPaDeSade | hello MP
*Night Spirit* | well let's do it anyways a couple of announcements
*Lynn* | huggs marie
GrandPaDeSade | shakes Inspector. huggs Lynn and lynnette
marieM | stiled dazed Master was in wrong room
*The Inspector* | hi marie
lynnette | hello marie
marieM | settling in between Master's feet.. hiya all
*Night Spirit* | one this is the last CO this month-due to folsom
| street fair and having to
*Night Spirit* | prepare our home for it
Michael P. | hugs dear
*Night Spirit* | we are taking the next 2 weeks off, but will return
| first Sunday of October
Michael P. | no live play by play from the toyroom NS? (G)
*Night Spirit* | Second announcement is if anyone wishes to host
| their own conferances weekly or
*Night Spirit* | just one, please contact me
*Lynn* | lol
GrandPaDeSade | MP, if you arrange the telecast we will.
*Night Spirit* | Michael I plan to send a live feed over the net
Michael P. | excellent (S)
marieM <busy> | oh gosh, NS i think's that's way too much work for
| you
marieM <busy> | i knew you were going to say that
*Night Spirit* | naw marie plan to just hook the camera to Michael's
| parts
Michael P. | I plan feeding marie live
*Lynn* | lol
marieM <busy> | lol thanks NS
Michael P. | lol
marieM <busy> | what are friends for <S>
110453,1700 | hello all
110453,1700 | oops
*Lynn* | tina?
tina | lol
tina | thats better
*Night Spirit* | ok BDSM 101 is tonight's topic what that means is
| what is the basics, what
*Night Spirit* | should every Dom and sub know before the first time?
*Lynn* | <giggle>
lynnette - busy | hello tina
*The Inspector* | hi tina
*Lynn* | hugs tina
*Night Spirit* | what are the basics of our lifestyle?
tina | huggss everyone
Michael P. | hi tina
*Night Spirit* | and let's see who is the first
| victim.....Mmmmmmmmmmmm
*Night Spirit* | tina
tina | lol
*Lynn* | lol
GrandPaDeSade | good choice NS
*Night Spirit* | what do you think are the basics one should know?
tina | regarding?....saftey, technique?.........
tina | what area are you looking at
suchana | <S>
*Lynn* | I think building trust and defining that might be a
*Lynn* | good start
*Lynn* | hi suchie <S>
lynnette - busy | hello suchana
GrandPaDeSade | Hi suchy
*Night Spirit* | basics tina, what should person A know about
| BDSM----do you think safety is
tina | we all know trust is a basic here.....thats a
| given....
*Night Spirit* | important?
suchana | ( hugggs to all .. sorry i am tardy <S>
*Night Spirit* | or technique?
Michael P. | hi suchy
marieM <busy> | I think with any relationship especially with D/s
| you have ot define what you
marieM <busy> | think you needs might be and go from there .. even
| when they change or unsure..
marieM <busy> | the journey has to start with yourself
tina | ok NS.........if I were meeting for the first
| time....I would know about safety
tina | for sure......physical and emotional saftey
tina | and
*Night Spirit* | ah so trust is important anything else?
tina | also........history of the DOm in question
*Lynn* | it's the beginning .. to me
*Spartan* | <peeks in>...............<s>
tina | the morals and ethics he lives by
Michael P. | Yes knowing what you need as honestly as you can be
| with yourself is the first
Michael P. | step. Anything done after that should be based on
| those needs.
tina | or she
lynnette - busy | hello Spartan, Sir
*Lynn* | Hi Spartan <s>
*Lynn* | Sir
GrandPaDeSade | How do you find out the doms history tina?
Michael P. | shakes Spartan
*Spartan* | <not wishing to disturb with lots of hellos>..huggs
| n shakes around...<s>..
*Night Spirit* | ok so first is trust, safety, question the Dom/me
| or sub....honest with
*Night Spirit* | yourself, so far all good
tina | talk with him/her.....friends of
| him/her.........talk with rt friends as
tina | well...even family can useful in a vanilla way <to
| them>.....
*Night Spirit* | marie mentioned needs
*Night Spirit* | what are our needs?
*Spartan* | <proudly watchin my littleones fingers smoke up the
| den on her
*Spartan* | keyboard>..............
tina | know what it is I am looking for in the meeting,
| and know that I have been
tina | responsible in communicating that to the Dom...
tina | or sub...whichever is the case
GrandPaDeSade | What if one person tells you horrible things about
| this person, and everyone
GrandPaDeSade | else says good things?
*Lynn* | I think your own intuition is the last word
Michael P. | carry mace
*Lynn* | when in doubt.. I listen to my gut
lynnette - busy | i think you have to rely on your own judgement
tina | then I take that info from them....along with the
| others and use MY best
tina | judgement
~wrybrat~ | <sitting quietly>
marieM <busy> | GPDS, when possible you might be lucky to find some
| within the community.. even
marieM <busy> | other Dom's or subs that you trust
GrandPaDeSade | Agreed
marieM <busy> | and you have to start somewhere with the faith you
| have in yourself to judge
*The Inspector* | that one person may not have been secure in
| themselves
*Night Spirit* | so we check histroy, trust safety issues, know the
| Dom/me or sub before meeting
*Night Spirit* | them.....get ideas on the person--but how is that
| different then a first date
*Night Spirit* | in the vanilla world?
tina | one thing I have learned is that as a
| sub..........I still have to be
tina | accountable for MY own actions and not disregard
| any responsibility ....
*Lynn* | exactly TI
marieM <busy> | just like when looking for a good Doctor or
| Teacher.. you need to realize that
marieM <busy> | the opoinns mayb vary
tina | on my own part
marieM <busy> | may vary
GrandPaDeSade | However, haveing been on the receiving end of the
| bad rumor bit, I was
GrandPaDeSade | wondering how people would handle mixed reports
| about someone.
*The Inspector* | you'll always have different opinins
*Night Spirit* | if all is ready, trust is there, safety issues
| addressed, what is the basics
*Night Spirit* | now--I think marie said it ---needs--what is our
| basic needs after safety and
*Night Spirit* | trust is addressed?
marieM <busy> | GPDS.. i think you have to when necessary confront
| the person themselve
marieM <busy> | possible in a way that shows them your mind is open
| and you want to hear it
marieM <busy> | from them.. it might give you and insight to their
| response even
GrandPaDeSade | That's very important tina. Many submissives don't
| seem to realize that.
marieM <busy> | and allow you to judge their feelings..
Michael P. | well if you know what it is you want and are able
| to control your need, hold
tina | yes GP...........unfortunately
Michael P. | back your desire and pay attention to what you are
| hearing, let it develop and
Michael P. | don't jump out of your clothes at the first
| opportunity, then it is a lot
Michael P. | easier to judge another and be safe. That goes to
| the very basic 101 concept.
Michael P. | We are all in this to satisfy needs and too often
| people tend to worry about
Michael P. | meeting expectations or just jumping right in
| without knowing what it is they
Michael P. | need
*Lynn* | back to the gut...I make my own decisions, in the
*Lynn* | end.
marieM <busy> | IMHO opinoin you will face it at some point if it's
| that important to you
*Night Spirit* | ahhhhhh good one Michael
Black Knight | so this is were you guys are hiding
tina | <s> BK
Black Knight | hello tina<hugggs>
marieM <busy> | BK.. can a group like us really HIDE <g>
*Lynn* | lol
Black Knight | no not really<s>
*Lynn* | hi BK <s>
*Night Spirit* | one thing we haven't touched on is limits
Black Knight | hello Lynn<hugggsss>
*Night Spirit* | greetings BK we are discussing the basics of
| BDSM101 what do we need to know?
*Lynn* | that's certainly important
GrandPaDeSade | To me an important thing is not to let your desire
| to play, or your desire for
GrandPaDeSade | the other person, to override your common sense.
Black Knight | <shakes NS>
*Night Spirit* | <--licks BK
Black Knight | <PErK>NS
marieM <busy> | NS i think limits are the easiet of what we touched
| up.. most people go slowly
marieM <busy> | or and limits are expanded.. anyone who tries to
| change my limit from the get
marieM <busy> | go is a red flag
Michael P. | I have a concept of honest selfishness. Knowing
| what you want, communicating
*Night Spirit* | ok so trust, histroy, safety and common sense are
| important
Michael P. | it to another, listening to their needs and
| ensuring they know what they want
Michael P. | then working out a compromise tends to make limits
| very apparent
Black Knight | well right or wrong i think you have to have trust
| or you can't even do a dang
Black Knight | thing
marieM <busy> | BK .. we said that 5 minute ago <S>
GrandPaDeSade | How about someone who says they won't observe
| limits?
Michael P. | true BK, but too often lust overwhelms trust
*Night Spirit* | but these things do not seem any different then 2
| vanilla folks meeting first
*Night Spirit* | time
Michael P. | that's were the mace comes in GP
*The Inspector* | seems to me all this leads right back to the first
| thing..........communication
*The Inspector* | and how important it is
marieM <busy> | red flag
suchana | NS .. how about limits ?
Black Knight | that is defently true MP
tina | thats when I walk out ...immmediately......
GrandPaDeSade | Or someone who tells you they will 'teach' you to
| overcome those limits in
GrandPaDeSade | short order.
Michael P. | I don't mean the spray kind, I mean the ball with
| the spikes, right to the
Michael P. | privates
tina | lol
lynnette - busy | lol Michael
*Spartan* | no matter what things a sub feels, and yes, i
| believe one of the *job* a Dom/me
*Spartan* | has is to allow the circle to form, a sub must feel
| comfortable to be able to
*Spartan* | release control, and a Dom has the resp to allow
| for her discomfort initially
*Spartan* | and earn what is necessary for the turnover of
| control, ultimately, no matter
*Spartan* | how reckles in the end desires can get even runaway
| by the sub as her mental
*Spartan* | state shifts gears, the Dom must control and shut
| down even in their best
*Spartan* | interset if necessary.....
GrandPaDeSade | Goode show MP
*Night Spirit* | suchy to me limits should be discussed up front--my
| red flag is always--I do
*Night Spirit* | not use safewords, and I have no limits
*Spartan* | reckles=reckless...
*Spartan* | <g>
Black Knight | you know
marieM <busy> | NS did you always feel that way.. it took me some
| time to get to that place..
marieM <busy> | but it didn't takelong
Black Knight | i was in the aol dungeon today
*Night Spirit* | Spartan you made a good point---sub must feel safe
| to give up the control to
*Night Spirit* | the Dom/me
Black Knight | and was talking to so subbies there
*Spartan* | best interest..<f**kin keyboard>
Black Knight | when i would ask them what there limits were or
| whatever
Black Knight | they would look at me like i was an alien
Black Knight | i could feel it
Black Knight | they had no clue what i was talking about
*Spartan* | if there is no initial trust in the ability to give
| up the control, it only
*Spartan* | becomes a rape in the end......................
suchana | yes NS, but in Basic 101 ... discussing within your
| self your own limits wether
suchana | top or bottom .. and deciding .. what will serve as
| your beginning boundary .
lynnette - busy | but if you're new to this, how do you know what
| limits to set?
*Night Spirit* | marieM I learned a while back from GrPa that a sub
| with NO limits ever may not
*Night Spirit* | be trustworthy--we all have limits--that is normal
*Lynn* | good question lynnette
Michael P. | I suspect those are people who play at this BK,
| they model their dynamic on
Michael P. | fiction, they're trying to be Sir Stephen and end
| up being shallow
GrandPaDeSade | If a submissive tells me they don't have limits, I
| ask them about scat,
GrandPaDeSade | watersports, and bloodsports. The usually decide
| they should think it over more.
Black Knight | well that is true lynnette but you should know what
| you know you don't want to
Black Knight | try
*Night Spirit* | lynnette I am big on pre-negoatation I have a form
| must be filled out before I
*Night Spirit* | meet someone and we talk before meeting and they
| get my version of it
Michael P. | that certainly helps NS, but it won't hold up in
| court
Michael P. | it does focus attention though
*Lynn* | court? Is that an issue too?
Black Knight | i mean if you don't know what you want to try or
| not try then you haven't
Black Knight | thought about it enogh
Michael P. | in some cases it has been Lynn
*The Inspector* | if you get hurt it could be Lynn
*Night Spirit* | no but like my submissive, he and I discussed what
| I can do and what I can't I
*Night Spirit* | feel I know his limits
*Lynn* | oh my.. I never thought of that
Michael P. | very true BK
*Night Spirit* | good BK
Black Knight | <whew> do i get a gold star?
Black Knight | <laffin>
GrandPaDeSade | As far as court goes, the courts have held that you
| cannot consent to being
GrandPaDeSade | hurt. so we have no protection there.
*Night Spirit* | so again we all feel communication, trust, limits,
| and safety are all important
*Night Spirit* | to basic BDSM--how about first aid?
lynnette - busy | well....in my extremely limited experience, there's
| a lot i don't even know
lynnette - busy | about.....which makes setting limits difficult
*Spartan* | lynnette's point is well taken, and sometimes
| we<having been there as we all
*Spartan* | have>..seem to roll over them too easily....the
| initial limits need to be
*Spartan* | whatever you feel and know of going into it
| lynnette, and dont worry about them
*Spartan* | being so low compared to what u hear others say,
| they may be high to *U*, this
*Spartan* | is such an individual thing that only u can set the
| rules up , and change them
*Spartan* | along the way for urself.....
*Night Spirit* | GrPa remember the Oregon Trial
*The Inspector* | then set them as you go lynnette
suchana | shines BK's gold star as i place the magnet on the
| back so it will stick to his
suchana | armor .
*Lynn* | very good, Spartan, Sir.. and well said
GrandPaDeSade | Wait for the appeals on that one first NS
lynnette - busy | thank you Spartan....well said
Black Knight | thanks suchy<s>
*Night Spirit* | now is first aid important for basic bdsm user?
Black Knight | yes
Black Knight | never know if you screw up
*Night Spirit* | ok what should you have on hand
*Night Spirit* | what knowledge?
Black Knight | you don't mean to have to use it but your should
| know
tina | yes NS.......I liken it to when I find a sitter for
| my daughter....I always ask
tina | do you know cpr, first aid?....may never be needed
| but I am reassured from the
tina | begnning....
GrandPaDeSade | Or if your play partner has a health problem they
| have hidden from you.
*Spartan* | remember the old joke of the man who walks in a
| doctors office and sticks his
*Spartan* | finger on his temple and says ...doctor, doctor, it
| hurts when i do this, and
*Spartan* | the reply is, well....dont do it.......that'll be
| $75.00 please.........
Black Knight | <<<<has a first aid car kit in the car and a small
| personal on i take on trips
suchana | rubber gloves .. peroxide .. bandages .. smelling
| salts ( S ) . . . a
suchana | telephone .... scissors ...
*Spartan* | <tap, tap>
Black Knight | <<<<is a boy scout too<saluteing NS with boyscout
| salute>
Michael P. | dusting butt off
GrandPaDeSade | We have three first-aid kits in our home.
Michael P. | I've been cloned
*Night Spirit* | well ice for swelling is good, how about bruises?
*Lynn* | seems to me... depends on what you are
*Lynn* | practicing..
GrandPaDeSade | <--Returns Boy Scout salute
Black Knight | <shakes GrandPA>
Black Knight | <s>
*Night Spirit* | sure have Michael the ghost should vanish soon
Michael P. | two of me (S) a one man tag team
tina | lol
~wrybrat~ | o0oooooo
Black Knight | ohh i have a question
*Lynn* | lol
*Night Spirit* | what things should be in our first aid kit?
*Night Spirit* | yes BK?
suchana | i said somethings NS .
marieM <busy> | i will never survive the folsom weekend if there
| are two of you
Black Knight | in the process of lace bondage <lacing the rope
| around the body etc. etc.
GrandPaDeSade | Wonder how the Boy Scouts would feel about what we
| do now bk?
Black Knight | is there a way of knowing how to make them tight
Black Knight | without making them to tight
Black Knight | or just trial and error?
Black Knight | <laffin> there is no telling Grandpa
*Night Spirit* | suchy good list, disinfectant <sp>
tina | gloves, antiseptic......scissors, cold packs,
| banadges....assorted,
tina | etccc....
GrandPaDeSade | mAKE SURE YOU CAN EASILY SLIP A FINGER UNDER THEM.
| iF THE SKIN COLOR STARTS TO
GrandPaDeSade | CHANGE, LOOSTEN THEM.
Michael P. | one of the things I've seen (in myself a long time
| ago too)
Michael P. | is a hesitance to admit I don't know how to do
| something, I
Michael P. | wonder how many people have been injured because a
Michael P. | dominant was too proud to ask someone to teach or
| to ask
Michael P. | a sub to bear with him while he learned
Black Knight | got ya
Black Knight | <writing it down>
GrandPaDeSade | Sorry, Caps Lock got me
suchana | whispers ( Master is also a firefighter EMT ) lots
| of goodies in the box .
Black Knight | <laffin>
*Lynn* | good point Michael
suchana | Ooo GrPa .. shouting <S>
*Night Spirit* | BK I test the ropes on myself to see if they are
| soft enough for struggle or
*Night Spirit* | not, if abrasive it is discussed sub about that I
| also ask them---if too tight
*Night Spirit* | or not
Black Knight | now that is one thing i do tell subbie
*Spartan* | oooooooo sharps......<fainting>......
Black Knight | i tell them that i am not to pround to learn
| something
Black Knight | they want to teach me somthing go ahead
*Night Spirit* | suchy I started first reponder class will go back
| soon to finish it
suchana | he he Spartan .
GrandPaDeSade | suchy, you are in good hands then, But what if he
| gets ill. Has he taught you?
Michael P. | it should be a given BK, but I see too many not
| admit they
Michael P. | don't know everything
Black Knight | yes so have i MP
Michael P. | that goes to honesty
tina | yes Michael........definately a problem....with many
suchana | i am a Non practicing LPN< Gr Pa ..<S> gave it up
| for lent ,
Michael P. | and I feel it is necessary and right for a
| submissive to ask
Michael P. | questions with a new dominant or top, ask what they
| are
Michael P. | going to do, how they are going to do it
tina | <---was almost an RN...knows how to give a real
| good sponge bath <wink>
Black Knight | oooo baths
Michael P. | yet I also see many submissives hesitate or just
| not ask
*Spartan* | <-- is proud to say i learn something new from each
| new personal or
Black Knight | <drool
*Spartan* | interpersonal experience........
suchana | <weg> p r o v e it <S>
Black Knight | sorry
Black Knight | <laffin>
GrandPaDeSade | I always try a toy on myself first so I can judge
| it's effect.
tina | lol
*Spartan* | nods GPDS
Michael P. | same here and intend to learn to shred a rose pedal
| soon
Michael P. | (S)
Michael P. | same here GP
*Night Spirit* | ah that is good advice grandpa
Michael P. | but I sorta got off on the pinwheel (G)
Black Knight | <writes that down too>
tina | <sighing>...
Black Knight | dang should have come here long time ago
tina | <s>
suchana | HEres a good question ..
marieM <busy> | remembering to bring lots of roses to folsom <G>
*Spartan* | striking the rose petal MP and not disturbing it
| other than some movement is
*Spartan* | the real trick , i not only was able to shred it my
| first time with a
*Spartan* | singletail, i knocked the damn vase over
| too.......<g>
Michael P. | lol
suchana | lets say .. youa re all tied up .. and the TOP
| faints .. dies passes out ,,.
suchana | how in the hell do ya get free ?
GrandPaDeSade | Many submissives are afraid to tell the dom to stop
| or change direction. They
GrandPaDeSade | want to please TOO much. I tell them 'you are NOT
| pleasing me if you allow me
GrandPaDeSade | to hurt you by not telling me you are in trouble"
*Lynn* | I think Steven King addressed that issue in his
*Lynn* | book.. lol'
Michael P. | one goal at a time for me Spartan, actually I'd
| like to be
Michael P. | able to cut it from the stem and keep it in the air
| like
Michael P. | shooting a can with a pistol
Michael P. | but that may take a while
*Night Spirit* | ok here is a basic--start slowly and build up
lynnette - busy | lol Lynn
*Spartan* | <s>...
Michael P. | always NS
marieM <busy> | suchana some Doms' always keep something close
| enough to the sub.. even a phone
marieM <busy> | or something.. i am not sure.. if everyone does
| it.. but i have heard it being
marieM <busy> | spoken about
*The Inspector* | good question suchy
*Night Spirit* | The submissive can use the "one to ten" technique
| to indicate they're ready to
*Night Spirit* | feel a paddle or whip stroke, and its intensity.
| "One" is a feather-light
*Night Spirit* | touch; "ten" is a full-power stroke
marieM <busy> | especially if there is any type of medical history
Michael P. | good point marie
suchana | well, lets say Master has me ina very .. unable to
| move position.. chained
suchana | tied .. clamped .. non moveable .. ?
tina | brb
*Night Spirit* | marie hit a good point medical histroy should be
| discussed BEFORE play
GrandPaDeSade | I tend to use clips and chains rather than ropes
| and/or locks for just that
GrandPaDeSade | reason. Remember "Geralds Game".
~wrybrat~ | Geralds Game?
*Night Spirit* | suchy I like that too but Owner uses clips if I
| wish I can remove
*Night Spirit* | them....safety first
*Lynn* | yes Grandpa..
lynnette - busy | Stephen King book, wry
*Lynn* | Steven king book
*Night Spirit* | Gerald's Game by Stephan King, he handcuff wife to
| bed and dies
*Lynn* | the one I referred to
~wrybrat~ | oops..
Black Knight | the clips like on a dog chain GrandPa?
suchana | which type of these * clips * ? we have some ..
| instant releases .. that i can
suchana | get out of ..
GrandPaDeSade | A steven King book about a hubby & wife playing
| with handcuffs in a mountain
GrandPaDeSade | cabin. He has a heart attack, leaving her cuffed to
| the bed.
marieM <busy> | i usually have a friend or two know i am sceneing..
| in the begining i had to
marieM <busy> | call every night..
*The Inspector* | yes BK one that can be opened with a thumb
*Night Spirit* | no 2 headed clips one clips to cuffs one to whatever
suchana | but Master says .,. what are these clips you refer
| to ?
marieM <busy> | but i think over time we forget those things
Black Knight | cool
*Night Spirit* | As a rule, strokes from whips and paddles are
| delivered to fleshy, muscled body
*Night Spirit* | areas such as the lower buttocks and the "lower
| half of the upper half" of the
*Night Spirit* | back. It's very dangerous to strike your partner
| over their kidneys, liver,
*Night Spirit* | spleen, or tailbone
GrandPaDeSade | Correct NS, but then you would know.
Michael P. | I tend to not use restraints that prevent all
| mobility unless
Michael P. | in a dungeon or party
Black Knight | now what about the front of a sub NS?
*Night Spirit* | subbies should see if the Dom/me knows this kinda
| thing
Michael P. | or if someone else is around
Black Knight | where should you hit there or hit at all?
Michael P. | I sorta like the phrase "don't move" as a restraint
marieM <busy> | works too isn't that funny
Michael P. | much safer if I have a heart attack
Michael P. | or need to go out for pizza
suchana | but Micheal P .. when youa re in a situation like
| Beorn and i .. we can not
suchana | trtavel 8 hours north every time i want to be
| completely tied ( or he
suchana | completely binds me ) .. we are always alone ..
| noone knows .
GrandPaDeSade | I also use the quick release when weight is on them
| type for the X frame
Michael P. | I'm like that when I see marie in private suchana,
| I don't
Michael P. | immobilize her completely
*Night Spirit* | depends BK, fleshy parts is best, thighs, breasts
| never the stomach area---or
*Night Spirit* | bottom of feet is always good
marieM <busy> | suchy then i think you have to have abeeper on
| you.. that you can press
Michael P. | its a tradeoff
marieM <busy> | or some way to get free
suchana | laughing . nice michael P .. but some of us *
| bottom dwellers * like it <S>
*Night Spirit* | Do not leave a bound person alone. As a general
| rule, stay as close to a bound
*Night Spirit* | person as you would to an infant left in your care.
| (If you gag them, stay even
*Night Spirit* | closer.)
Michael P. | I know suchy
Michael P. | better safe than sorry though
suchana | ratz .
*Lynn* | I hate the gag...
Black Knight | got ya NS thanks
Michael P. | good advice NS
suchana | wrywry time for you to move in NOW >
GrandPaDeSade | Be careful about hitting any unpadded area with an
| organ of any kind below it.
~wrybrat~ | <laffing> scootch over..
*Night Spirit* | remember if you tie someone and leave what can
| happen--might happen--remember
*Night Spirit* | they don't have to know you are really there <wink>
suchana | i will i wi ll !
Michael P. | yes NS, always keep the worst case scenario in mind
Black Knight | does that all the time NS<s>
Eve | Hi
GrandPaDeSade | Get and read 'Gerald's Game' if you haven't. It'll
| make you think twice about
GrandPaDeSade | what could happen. It's good.
*Night Spirit* | hello Eve we are discussing the basics of BDSM
Eve | Interesting......any new theories?
Michael P. | hi Eve
*Night Spirit* | Keep "reality" out of it. Unless both of you
| specifically agree to it ahead of
*Night Spirit* | time, BDSM play is not a proper occasion to
| "punish" someone for a "real world"
*Night Spirit* | offense. Unpaid parking tickets, dirty dishes left
| in the sink, and so forth
*Night Spirit* | get handled outside the BDSM play.
*Lynn* | yeah especially the part when the dog munched the
*Lynn* | hubby for a snack
GrandPaDeSade | Just going over the basics.
suchana | how about choosing .. safe equipment . and knowing
| what you ahve that you
suchana | shouldnt use on someone else .. and knowing what
| you have that you can ..
*Night Spirit* | BDSM is about play, pleasure never should be done
| in anger, or rage
GrandPaDeSade | Agreed NS
Eve | I am a total novice on the subject, perhaps I
| should just observe
GrandPaDeSade | BDSM is about mutual satisfaction. Not anger.
*Night Spirit* | well suchy like us we bought a cheap coffee table
| and put a bunch of hooks on
*Night Spirit* | it, big enough for comfort but we tested it first
Black Knight | sometime i just make love to a sub
GrandPaDeSade | Now if punishment is part of 'the game', thats
| different
Black Knight | with little or no BDSMat all
*Night Spirit* | Eve you are more then welcome to and join in when
| you like :)
Michael P. | that is a good point Eve, I suspect much can be
| learned
Michael P. | by forcing your desire to be active back and watch
| others
Michael P. | for a while in order to become aware of what can
| happen,
Michael P. | what you want to experience and what you don't
*Night Spirit* | GrPa that is true if that is discussed before hand
Eve | Thank you Night Spirit
GrandPaDeSade | Or to ask questions Eve. That's what this CO is for.
suchana | i mean like . abttenburg wheels .. not realy a
| great idea to use them on
suchana | someone else .. best to have a seperate pair ..
| for each person .
~wrybrat~ | <laffing> I've done that for months.. sometimes I'm
| simply bursting to talk,
~wrybrat~ | Michael..
*Night Spirit* | Agree upon a safeword or two. These are special
| phrases used to indicate that
*Night Spirit* | the activity "really" needs to be slowed, changed,
| or stopped. Refusal to honor
*Night Spirit* | a safeword is very serious misconduct; it can even
| be a crime.
GrandPaDeSade | they aren't ment to puncture the skin suchy.
*Lynn* | I think it might be important to mention the
*Lynn* | emotional side of bdsm.,.how it effects you
*Lynn* | mentally..emotionally too
Eve | How does one know what to try if one has never
| experienced it...is there a
Eve | beginners guide?
Michael P. | bursting is good (EG))
suchana | no GrPa .. theya re not .. correct .. BUT sometimes
| it happens , Sir .
*Night Spirit* | I never use insert toys on others and mine always
| have condoms on them--helps
*Night Spirit* | keep them clean and helps them last longer
*Night Spirit* | yes Eve
suchana | and i know i surely would not want a wheel on my
| body that accident;y punctured
suchana | someone .
Black Knight | how do you do safewords when he sub is gaged?
*Night Spirit* | "Learning the Ropes" by Race Bannon
*Night Spirit* | "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns" by Philip
| Miller and Molly Devon
*Night Spirit* | "Sensuous Magic" by Pat Califia
*Night Spirit* | "SM 101: A Realistic Introduction" by Jay Wiseman
*Night Spirit* | "Safe, Sane, Consensual, and Fun" by John Warren
*Night Spirit* | "Consensual Sadomasochism" by William Henkin and
| Sybil Holiday
*Night Spirit* | "The Sexually Dominant Woman: A Workbook for
| Nervous Beginners" by Lady Green
Black Knight | what kind of signial can they give?
Michael P. | a spray bottle of diluted clorine bleach or a
| surgical soap
Michael P. | isn't a bad idea to have in the bag for such
| situations
tina | a safe motion BK......
GrandPaDeSade | they were invented to test for sensation in those
| with spinal cord injuries. I
GrandPaDeSade | haven't had one puncture the skin yet, (i have
| three), but if I did, it would
GrandPaDeSade | not be used on anyone else.
*Night Spirit* | BK give the sub a ball if dropped that is a safe
| word
Black Knight | oooooo that is a gooooddd one
Black Knight | <writing that down too>
Black Knight | <dang feels silly somtimes not thinking about this
| stuff>
Michael P. | I like that one NS
tina | I like that one NS......but somtimes is difficult
| to keep holding it when lost
tina | in subspace dont you think?<g>
*The Inspector* | they WILL puncture GPDS........
tina | sometimes I have a hard time maintaining my own
| balance....lol
Black Knight | maybe on on velco?
Michael P. | defintely they'll puncture
suchana | nodding head .. yes yes ... i ahve seen it puncture
| .. have seen a sub scream
suchana | out in terror ... and jerk .. and it not be pulled
| back fast enough .. shear
suchana | accident . ( hence first aid kit )
Black Knight | like a velro strap around the hand
GrandPaDeSade | MP, there is argument on what is sufficient to
| disinfect against AIDS.
Lady Aireanna | one could always put it in ones mouth ......or
| Master could
*Night Spirit* | tina that may be then ungag the sub and ask are you
| ok, or ask them to shake
*Night Spirit* | the head then hand them the ball back
Eve | I am lost here....what might burst?
suchana | and please also remeber that some persons lik ethem
| to puncture GrPa . <S>
*Night Spirit* | ok next basic idea
*Night Spirit* | Bondage creates dangerous vulnerability. We
| recommend that you let someone tie
*Night Spirit* | you up, blindfold you, or gag you only after you
| have first done at least two
*Night Spirit* | successful BDSM scenes with them that involved no
| bondage
Michael P. | true and if someone plays with many people it is
| best to
Michael P. | have multiple toys
GrandPaDeSade | Ture suchy, and as I said, if they did, they would
| noty be used on anyone else.
suchana | ( you are a wise Dom, GrPa )
*Night Spirit* | Eve any toy you have that have blood on it even if
| by accident should NOT be
*Night Spirit* | used on another person
~wrybrat~ | ::shudder:: that's just common sense..
Eve | I feel truely out of my depth here....I will leave
| it to the experts
Michael P. | makes vampire gloves a one time good deal
*Night Spirit* | safety is very basic and important to our lifestyle
tina | saw people use an establishments equipment<flogger>
| on thier own sub
tina | before.....a flogger that used on many in nightly
| audiences ......just anyone
tina | from the crowd.........caused me concern immediately
*Night Spirit* | wry sweety I have discovered in my life--many folks
| have no common sense where
*Night Spirit* | sexuallity is concerned
Black Knight | maybe carry around a bottle of alcahol and a rag
Michael P. | genitals overwhelm common sense
~wrybrat~ | true enough, NS.. and Michael..
marieM <busy> | most do.. BK and or antispectic wipes..
Razor | \\\\////
Razor | )ô ô(
Razor | \___/
*The Inspector* | even that BK is not enough
tina | rofl...thats the understatement of the night MP
| <ggrin>
Black Knight | <nodding>
*Night Spirit* | tina that is a major concern some folks do not
| think of these things
Black Knight | so basically
Black Knight | use your own stuff
tina | <nods> NS
*Night Spirit* | hello razor we are discussing the basics of BDSM
Black Knight | and make sure they are as clean as possible
Razor | ?
ADROCK | Hello Everyone
marieM <busy> | and a lot of players use gloves.. when doing some
| play.. such as whell or
marieM <busy> | needles.. etc.. even on thier own subs
*Night Spirit* | BK mostly use your own stuff--esp insertibles
GrandPaDeSade | I NEVER use equipment that belongs to anyone else.
| If it's out of my control, I
GrandPaDeSade | don't know how it's been cared for. the exceptions
| are things like x-frames,
GrandPaDeSade | beds, etc. And I check those carefully first.
suchana | tina .. i am sure you ahve seen floggers .. use on
| persons .. ( naked ) and the
suchana | flogger .. lightly ( or in some cases roughly )
| used between the legs .... i
suchana | dont want someone elses vaginal secretions all over
| my 300 dollar flogger ...
suchana | ! yikes !
*Night Spirit* | hello Adrock we are discussing the basics of BDSM
Black Knight | k
Michael P. | good point, don't want those cuddies
tina | absolutely suchy........
ADROCK | BDSM stands for what Night Spirit
*Night Spirit* | BDSM=bondage, disapline, sado masochism
ADROCK | oh ok
ADROCK | thank you
*Night Spirit* | anytime :)
*Night Spirit* | Do not attempt to do piercings or other activities
| that involve breaking the
*Night Spirit* | skin unless you have studied under, or are being
| supervised by, an
*Night Spirit* | knowledgeable individual.
suchana | Master also likes to use .accupuncture needles in
| my breasts ... we have
suchana | extras that we use for friends .. they are either
| given as presents when
suchana | finished, or disposed of immediatly .
*Night Spirit* | this can be dangerous unless you do know what you
| are doing
ADROCK | I would just like to say that i've been off line
| for a long time, it's great to be back
GrandPaDeSade | You should use equal care with your own submissives
| unless you are fliud bound.
Michael P. | and don't play on any equipment that could possibly
| have
Michael P. | any bodily fluids on it without cleaning it
| completely
*Night Spirit* | :) adrock
ADROCK | As for piercings, well it gives me the heebee
| jeebies
ADROCK | some are cool though
*Night Spirit* | I play games where I insert a bouncing super ball
| in a sub, then they have to
*Night Spirit* | drop them on command in a cup--those balls are
| tossed afterwards as are subby
*Night Spirit* | sticks
Michael P. | lol, I like that one
Michael P. | <--still learning new tricks
ADROCK | haha lol
tina | nitenite <s>
*Night Spirit* | ok also good is using layex gloves those with nails
| should wear 2 pait and
*Night Spirit* | condoms are important and someway to clean up
tina | thanks
ADROCK | <------ROOKIE
Michael P. | night tina
Black Knight | nite tina
ADROCK | nite tina
suchana | nite nite tina love
*Night Spirit* | Michael go to the site go to us/games.htm got alot
| of nasty games there
Eve | Thank you for letting me listen in.....it's 2am
| here and time for a little
Eve | sleep .....goodnight all
GrandPaDeSade | night tina
*Night Spirit* | Night tina
*The Inspector* | nite tina
*Night Spirit* | Night Eve
*The Inspector* | bye Eve
Michael P. | ok, I will NS
marieM <busy> | night eve
*Night Spirit* | ok any last ideas?
Michael P. | night Eve
*Lynn* | night tina and eve
*Night Spirit* | to share?
ADROCK | <----Let's Swing Dance
Black Knight | just the ball thing
suchana | what all have we covered, NS ?
ADROCK | that's my idea
ADROCK | hehe
GrandPaDeSade | For the balls, we use super bounce balls. If they
| bounce out of the cup, they
GrandPaDeSade | go back in.
Michael P. | I think we're focusing on the basics of SS&C, the
| very
Michael P. | basics and that should be the basis of BDSM 101,
| that
Michael P. | and knowing what you want and what you don't
Black Knight | in the hand when tina said she might drop it when
| she didn't want to
ADROCK | <------Clueless, scratching head
GrandPaDeSade | night Eve
*Night Spirit* | ok safety, limits discussed, trust, safewords,
| first aid, try toys, and be
*Night Spirit* | clean and careful
Black Knight | i thought if you got on that attached to a velcro
| strap that a sub could have
Black Knight | on her hand
Black Knight | then it wouldn't fall out when she didn't want it to
suchana | hgow about this one ..
*Night Spirit* | BK if dropped ask are you ok, if they shake head
| yes give thr ball back if not,
*Night Spirit* | then ungag them
suchana | When we did our first sccene .. i was begging of e
| more more more when it was
suchana | finished ...
Black Knight | that will work<s>
suchana | Master said . it was not a good idea to overload .
*Night Spirit* | suchy he was right
suchana | not to do too many things at once in the beginning .
suchana | ( yes he was right )
Michael P. | he was
*Night Spirit* | subs in subspace let go all control, but a Dom/me
| shouldn't, they are
*Night Spirit* | responsible for you and themselves
suchana | so i guess .. not do too mus=ch would be a good one
| .
*Night Spirit* | that is true
Michael P. | without exception NS
*Night Spirit* | suchy <ggl> leave them always wanting more
suchana | ( well, i was helping to look for ideas )
GrandPaDeSade | NS's record is 1.026 lashes in a three hour
| flogging session. I stopped it
GrandPaDeSade | because I didn't think she would know if she was
| injured at that point.
marieM <busy> | Suchana i have been in the same boat wanting a
| nother scene... Michael usually
marieM <busy> | knows my limits before i do
suchana | Master says <S. and i agree ./ ALWAYS leave them
| hungry <S>
Michael P. | yep
GrandPaDeSade | She still wanted more.
suchana | oh i always want more <S.
Michael P. | don't they all (G)
Black Knight | well all i am going to go thank you it has been
| quite educational
Black Knight | night all
*The Inspector* | nite BK
*Night Spirit* | yep when deep I want more, and bitch when GrPa says
| nope, but deep down I know
*Night Spirit* | he is right--he told me he was
marieM <busy> | night BK
lynnette - busy | nite BK...hugssss
Michael P. | goodnight BK
Black Knight | <shakes and hugggss>
*Night Spirit* | Night BK
suchana | good night BK, Sir .
GrandPaDeSade | night BK
Black Knight | <waves>
Black Knight | <rides off into the night>
marieM <busy> | NS do you have a full house for FOlsom weekend yet?
*Lynn* | Night all <S>
*Night Spirit* | OK once again thank you all for comming, this is
| the last one for 2 weeks, due
*Night Spirit* | to Folsom Street, next week I clean and week after
| is the event
*Night Spirit* | no marie I do not
GrandPaDeSade | I got dumped <grumble, grumble>
*Night Spirit* | hello love
suchana | Handing the Dom duster to NS so she can fluff the
| dust off GR PA's tushy
GrandPaDeSade | Kisses NS
Michael P. | wb GPDS
*Night Spirit* | we shall all return in 3 weeks-first week of October
Michael P. | so what will be the topic then NS?
GrandPaDeSade | Thanks suchana
*Night Spirit* | suchy as GrPa would say--that is what tongues are
| for
~wrybrat~ | <s> thanks to the hosties
suchana | Good Night Night Spirit and Gr Pa <S> thank you !
*Night Spirit* | Michael it will be self image in BDSM
suchana | OoOOooOo i siad before Gr Pa is a wisw Dom
GrandPaDeSade | night suchana. Have fun.
~wrybrat~ | night <s>
*Night Spirit* | thanks KatieJ whereever you are hugs little sis :)
marieM <busy> | night all
*Night Spirit* | Night marie
GrandPaDeSade | night wry, marie
Michael P. | thanks NS
Michael P. | night all
suchana | i think MoL knows where our Katie huney is <S>
*Night Spirit* | Michael
*Night Spirit* | did you need to talk?
*Night Spirit* | guess not
********** 9/13/98 6:08 PM End logging Silken Ties.