********** 11/15/98 4:56 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
spazz | hi night
*Night Spirit* | hello spazz
MoL's Katie J | huggggs, Sis!
MoL's Katie J | hello, spazz
*Night Spirit* | hugs little sis :)
spazz | hi katie
MoL's Katie J | welcome, Lynn
*Night Spirit* | hiya Lynn
Lynn <busy> | thanks Katie <s> hugggs sis
Lynn <busy> | huggs NS <s>
spazz | ok whats all the fuss. hi lynn
MoL's Katie J | <arguing with a 6 yo about bedtime>
Lynn <busy> | lol
MoL's Katie J | <smacking myself>
*Night Spirit* | ah the joys of motherhood
Lynn <busy> | hi spazz
MoL's Katie J | OOOOO, I like that!
Lynn <busy> | LOL Katie
MoL's Katie J | <teehee>
Lynn <busy> | huggs Spartan <kiss>
MoL's Katie J | *kotc* Spartan, Sir
*Night Spirit* | hello sexy Spartan
*Spartan* | kisses dear kj, NS, lynn..................
spazz | hi kara
MoL's Katie J | Welcome, Lady A
MoL's Katie J | good to see you again.
*Spartan* | <s>...NS.........u tease u...<wink>....
kara (C) | hello everybody <s>
Lynn <busy> | hi Lady A <s>
Lady Aireanna | thank you Katie...and you as well
MoL's Katie J | huggs, kara
Lori-busy | Hi.....just wanted to ask...is there a CO tonight?
Lady Aireanna | hello Lynn
Lynn <busy> | huggs kara <s> ltns
MoL's Katie J | sure is, Lori
*Night Spirit* | Spartan if you had stayed longer when at my house I
| would have shown you the
*Night Spirit* | type of tease I am
kara (C) | hello Katie.....huggggs <s>
Lori-busy | oh I did not know Katie<s>
kara (C) | huggggs Lynn :-)
MoL's Katie J | <waving to Big Bob in the corner>
Lori-busy | when does it start?
*Night Spirit* | yep there is a CO tonight
BIG BOB | hi
*Night Spirit* | in about 5 minutes Lori
Lori-busy | thanks NS
spazz | time to run kind of lost here ladies
Lori-busy | ok...brb
spazz | bye
*Spartan* | <heart piter n pattering>........sweet woman, and u
| perhaps to see just how
*Spartan* | much *I* could be as well.....<g>.......
*Spartan* | NS
kara (C) | i have been i NYC for the past month Lynn, just got
| home <s>
BIG BOB | halleo
Lynn <busy> | ohh..well wb honey
*Spartan* | u have kara......and u didnt let tina and I
| know........
*Night Spirit* | Spartan--promises promises
kara (C) | i would have loved that Spartan.......sorry
kara (C) | i was with my Master <s>
*Spartan* | so
*Spartan* | <shakin head>....
*Night Spirit* | in that case kara was TOO busy to visit <s>
MoL's Katie J | She may have been tied up, Spartan
*Spartan* | for a month hu....some scene.....<g>
kara (C) | yes........thank you Night Spirit <s>
*Night Spirit* | lol little sis
kara (C) | i was Katie......lol
Lori-busy | Welll back for a minute just to say goodnight....(
| sorry I can;t stay) and
Lori-busy | hello and goodnight to all <s>
*Night Spirit* | Spartan well some Masters have and some---don't
kara (C) | had a wonderful time......
*Night Spirit* | Night Lori
*Spartan* | night hugs lori , didnt even see u come in
Lynn <busy> | Night Lori
kara (C) | bye Lori
Lori-busy | Night NS...Spartan hugs.hope tina is back?.....bye
| kara....Katie....and all
Lori-busy | night Lynn
*Night Spirit* | Tonight's discussion is not an easy one but one
| that some of us have faces and
*Night Spirit* | others may face
*Spartan* | no lori, she returns on tues night....<sigh>...
Lori-busy | oh ok Spartan ...hope grandpa is better?
*Spartan* | a bit...<s>..thnx, will let her know u asked.....
GrandPaDeSade | Hello all
MoL's Katie J | Good evening, GrandPa
Lady Aireanna | good evening Sir.
*Spartan* | <s>....GPDS....
Lori-busy | ~~~ waves...hello and nite GpaDS
Lynn <busy> | huggs GrandPa
*Night Spirit* | In our lifestyles we have already discussed how a
| bdsm or D/s relationship is
*Night Spirit* | closer then vanilla, and deeper in trust and in
| communication
*Night Spirit* | so what happens when that relationship ends
*Night Spirit* | all relationships ending are hard, but is a BDSM
| D/s relationship harder to let
*Night Spirit* | go? or different in any way?
GrandPaDeSade | Huggsd Lori, Lynn, Katie
GrandPaDeSade | Huggs even
*Night Spirit* | I relate to this topic because of my past
Lynn <busy> | I think so, yes.
Lynn <busy> | I think it's harder
GrandPaDeSade | Good evening Lady A
kara (C) | it's harder to recover, i think
kara (C) | very painful....
*Night Spirit* | as many of you may know shadow Lord used to be my
| Master and lived with me, I
*Night Spirit* | trusted him heart and soul and thought it was
| forever---when he left me it was
*Night Spirit* | worse then my marriage breaking up
MoL's Katie J | The deeper the bond, the more difficult the
| severing of it.
*Night Spirit* | my marriage was 17 yrs, with SL was only a few
| brief months
kara (C) | so true Katie.....
*Night Spirit* | Katie I agree
*Night Spirit* | so what advice could we give those who may face
| that very difficult time?
*Night Spirit* | how do you trust again?
sarah | <quietly sneaking ing>
*The Inspector* | hello everyone
Lynn <busy> | <hugs TI>
*The Inspector* | huggs Lynn
*Spartan* | NS, I have found that as in any relationship, it
| depends on the two, how and
*Spartan* | why, the reasons themselves govern the relationship
| either continuing on
*Spartan* | another level, or depending on the hurt involved<of
| the heart i speak>....to be
*Spartan* | apart for awhile.....no difference between vanilla
| or D/s....they all
*Spartan* | hurt............
Lynn <busy> | I thought I would never find another that could make
Lynn <busy> | me feel the way he did...
Lynn <busy> | I was wrong
*Night Spirit* | Spartan so what happens when it ends--what advice
| would you give
MST.Sally's <EBE> | I will say, it will not be better, will not
MST.Sally's <EBE> | be good if you love someone it will
MST.Sally's <EBE> | not end.. it will evolve,,, very slowly...
*Night Spirit* | Lynn how did you find another?
sarah | <- never sure that I know *when* to get out
Lynn <busy> | I haven't found another.... but I have experienced
Lynn <busy> | what he made me feel..
*Spartan* | hoping that the line here forms behind the
| sign..'it just wasnt right'...if so,
*Spartan* | i do not see why a maintained friendship could not
| continue, after all, look at
*Spartan* | what has been shared......
MST.Sally's <EBE> | by the way, finding another doesn't
MST.Sally's <EBE> | mean the end of the former..
MoL's Katie J | For me, I think the most important thing is to keep
| yourself from attacking the
MoL's Katie J | other ... the mere fact of a relationship not
| working out doesn't make either
MoL's Katie J | person bad .. sometimes the mix just isn't right.
*Night Spirit* | but sometimes relationships end--what then?
MoL's Katie J | And what Spartan said.
GrandPaDeSade | In a vanilla relationship, one is not as likely to
| be dependent on the other as
GrandPaDeSade | wit a dom/sub relationship
sarah | <nod nod>
MST.Sally's <EBE> | vanilla/Domme. sub is totally
MST.Sally's <EBE> | irrelevant--this is love!!
MoL's Katie J | co dependent, GrandPa?
*Spartan* | <s>....TI...
*Night Spirit* | see SL tried to leave while I was at work, no real
| good bye he just wanted to
*Night Spirit* | vanish---I had no idea things were not working he
| said he was happy--when he
*Night Spirit* | left I thought the world actually ended----I no
| longer felt powerful I felt
*Night Spirit* | tiny and very alone
sarah | i dont think the dynamics of D/s are irrelevant at
| all
MST.Sally's <EBE> | Love is love...
GrandPaDeSade | co dependent, yes. But the more control the sub has
| turned over to the dom, the
GrandPaDeSade | harder it is likely to be for both, and especially
| the sub.
*Night Spirit* | but sarah we as D/s beleive in TRUST major
| major----we trust the Dom and if
*Night Spirit* | they walk out---I think it is more of a blow to a
| sub
sarah | i agree NS
Lynn <busy> | not just anyone is taking you for a dive....and the
Lynn <busy> | trust element is greater
sarah | that is why i am saying that D/s DOES indeed matter
*Night Spirit* | I cared alot for my ex we are friends but our
| breakup is not nearly as awful to
*Night Spirit* | me as when my Master left
sarah | this is so much harder than the break up of any
| vanilla relatinship i have ever
sarah | had
kara (C) | i have never handled rejection well, it hurts no
| matter what the relationship
*Night Spirit* | sarah I agree, is it the same for Dom's?
Lynn <busy> | sarah ..are you afraid you'll never reach subspace
Lynn <busy> | again? I was
MST.Sally's <EBE> | pain of separation from a lover has
MST.Sally's <EBE> | nothing to do with lifestyle!
sarah | and i am friendly with the man i lived with, even
| tho we are apart now, but i ca
sarah | nnot seem to make myself be friendly with the Dom
*The Inspector* | I have only had one experience there...........
*Night Spirit* | GrPa you had a long relationship with a submissive
| and broke up
*The Inspector* | and yes it hurt
sarah | and i do think it is harder for the Dom, NS
*The Inspector* | it was so short thank goq
*The Inspector* | god
*Night Spirit* | TI what then--what do you do to go on?
GrandPaDeSade | I was married to my ex-wife for 32 years. I have
| been with NS for three. I
GrandPaDeSade | trust NS much more, and would be hurt much more if
| she left. (And I'm the dom.)
GrandPaDeSade | Btw, it was a vanilla marriage
sarah | i dont think i am afraid i wil never get there
| again.. i am afraid i can never t
sarah | rust that much again
GrandPaDeSade | Yes NS, I did
Black Knight | <wanders in quietly and sits down listening>
*The Inspector* | I just came back ...........here........to be with
| friends
kara (C) | thats what scares me sarah.....
Mis-guided | hi room
sarah | i have given him SOOOO much.. I fear i cannot do
| that again
*Night Spirit* | TI that is very good idea----be with friends is a
| good way to cope, to talk it
*Night Spirit* | out
Black Knight | the human sprit is undeifinable it will return in
| time i think sarah
*Night Spirit* | sarah also has a point in D/s do we give SO MUCH
| MORE then we do in vanilla
*Night Spirit* | relationships?
*The Inspector* | I have had 2 IRL marriages go sour
| though............and there is a lot of
*The Inspector* | comparison
Countess de Sade | I<sneaked in as well.....
*Spartan* | i believe that depending on ur past breakups and
| life situations, some of which
*Spartan* | are more heart wrenching than a relationship
| breakup, u could come off<even if
*Spartan* | it hurts> seeming numb.....<has been
| accused>...........
GrandPaDeSade | sara, that is a self-fulfilling prophacy. You must
| be willing to trust, or plan
GrandPaDeSade | on being alone a lot.
*Spartan* | hence seeming detached and not as emotional
sarah | I try G'pa<S>
MST.Sally's <EBE> | I been here week after week and
MST.Sally's <EBE> | people joke how my comments go
sarah | or should i say, am trying
*Night Spirit* | ok GrPa how do you trust again?
sarah | i feel very betrayed
Countess de Sade | Life is full of risks......
MST.Sally's <EBE> | this one time, I would like to say
MST.Sally's <EBE> | something
sarah | i cannot seem to get past it
*Night Spirit* | sarah sweety I know that one
Countess de Sade | we risk even getting out of bed in the morning. but
| would you stay there all
Countess de Sade | day?
*Spartan* | u dont NS..not if it might hurt, u hold back........
sarah | what do i do now, NS?
*The Inspector* | yes Ebe?
MoL's Katie J | yes, Ebe?
*Night Spirit* | yes EBE
Lynn <busy> | Ebe..no one is joking about your comments
Lynn <busy> | huggs
GrandPaDeSade | Be open and willing to give the other person a
| chance. You answer NS, how did
GrandPaDeSade | you learn to trust me? (Or do you?)
Countess de Sade | no. you get up and go about the day again......
*Night Spirit* | good point Countess
Black Knight | well it hurt me real back and thought i have only
| had cyber relationships so
Black Knight | far when paige left me and did not say why did not
| leave any reason just got up
Black Knight | and left the whole thing went right off line and so
| i sat a wondered for a
Black Knight | month what happend to her. before i found out
| finally. those breakups are the
Black Knight | worst to me
MST.Sally's <EBE> | I am with a Mistress who i think has
MST.Sally's <EBE> | some rwspect amopng you
sarah | goign about my day, and letting some whip me are 2
| different things
sarah | someone even
Countess de Sade | BK. the not knowing is the worst,.
Black Knight | yes that is what hurt me the most Countess
Countess de Sade | If you know what is happening, it makes it much
| easier to handle.. anyhing
GrandPaDeSade | MST, I tend to respect everyone, untill they prove
| they don't deserve it.
Black Knight | i didn't know if it was me if she got hurt or what
*Night Spirit* | well so we all feel you can't hide, and should be
| with friends, but can you
*Night Spirit* | trust again--is it easy or hard?
Black Knight | she was the first i wanted to meet and make
| something grow from it and then bam
Black Knight | nothing . But you know how i got through it?
GrandPaDeSade | That gets me hurt at times. But you need to be
| willing to take a chance, else
GrandPaDeSade | you never find what you want
Mis-guided | when all is said and done.............you've got to
| laugh!!!!
*The Inspector* | it's damn hard NS
*Night Spirit* | tell us BK
MST.Sally's <EBE> | this topic is important becaues it
MST.Sally's <EBE> | may be I have something to say onn
MST.Sally's <EBE> | this subject, if anyone would give
MST.Sally's <EBE> | me a chance..
Black Knight | i thought long and hard about her
Countess de Sade | <listening. BK
Black Knight | how much i loved her and being with her
*Night Spirit* | EBE I am waiting please continue
Black Knight | and shead a few tears now and then
sarah | it is very hard NS,,, almost too hard
GrandPaDeSade | Mis-guided, I AGREE. Laughter is Very Important.
Black Knight | then i went to bed
Black Knight | and i woke up the next morning
Black Knight | looked at the sun
Black Knight | and wispered
Black Knight | the world didn't end
Countess de Sade | <s> Works for me too, BK
Black Knight | and i got back up my horse
*Spartan* | ebe, the room stops for no one, have something to
| say, say it, keep asking for
*Spartan* | those to listen and u r waisting ur chance to say
| what we could read and
*Spartan* | comment on...........................
GrandPaDeSade | EBE, you need to jump in and say it.
Black Knight | and rode back into what i love my friends and
| everything else i loved before her
*Spartan* | <s>
MST.Sally's <EBE> | If yout Mistress.Master takes another
MST.Sally's <EBE> | ...then what??
Lynn <busy> | <kotc BK>
Mis-guided | thats so beautiful
*Night Spirit* | BK that may be it right there---the world didn't
| end, ourselves didn't end--we
*Night Spirit* | must go on
MST.Sally's <EBE> | Have they left you??
Black Knight | Oh and NightSprit i would have to say that for some
| Trust is all we have
Black Knight | <S>
Countess de Sade | Ot's really hell to care sometimes, eh?? BK??? <s>
Black Knight | <kotc Lynn>
GrandPaDeSade | EBE, Do they give you up, or share?
*The Inspector* | and at times we have to face the ones that hurt
| us........or the ones we have
*The Inspector* | hurt
Black Knight | <S>maybe countess
sarah | share<sigh>
MST.Sally's <EBE> | share but, the new toy is so shiney
MST.Sally's <EBE> | and new!!
Mis-guided | and punch their lights out
*Night Spirit* | EBE I love GrPa but he is DOM I am a switch and
| bi--I yearn to have another
*Night Spirit* | person in our lives doesn't change the fact I love
| GrPa
Mis-guided | i'll get my coat
sarah | but NS, i cannot seem to accept her
Black Knight | besides as human beings is it not true that all our
| lives there comes a time
Black Knight | when we have to trust someone for better or worse
| we just have to
*Night Spirit* | EBE new toys may be shiny and new but old toys are
| held on to longest
GrandPaDeSade | I love NS. But I play with others. It does not mean
| I love NS any less.
GrandPaDeSade | Although I know she has trouble with it at times.
Black Knight | Hell yes Night Sprit!!!
sarah | how do you cope with that?
Black Knight | <you should see my room <LMAO <,,,meteforically
| speaking i still have
Black Knight | tranformers
MST.Sally's <EBE> | I did not cope!
Countess de Sade | Choosing someone is a very complicated process as
| well I am finding
Countess de Sade | out....<sigh>
Lynn <busy> | sarah,, did he not share you also?
Black Knight | sometimes Countess they choose you don't forget
| that either<S>
Mis-guided | sad isn't it?
GrandPaDeSade | It is difficult to cope with. It's much easier if
| the "sharing" is understood
GrandPaDeSade | at the start.
Countess de Sade | yeah <g> I know that.....
*Night Spirit* | EBE how I did it was look into my life and what I
| want--I had it with a man who
*Night Spirit* | ignored me and working 14 hours a day for nothing
| and sleeping in my store
*Night Spirit* | instead of going home
sarah | i have tried very hard to find a new ground for
| us.. to make this work.. to reme
sarah | mber that he loves me and i love him... but GOD
| almighty.. i cannot do it
GrandPaDeSade | Don't leavve mis-guided
*Night Spirit* | I looked into my self and asked what I wanted in
| life
MST.Sally's <EBE> | the new sub is gone...I feel awful!! I
MST.Sally's <EBE> | hate this!!
sarah | But Lynn.. he knew of Dave from minute one
brian | HI room
Black Knight | <<<nee nee choose me<proud smile> and i am damn
| lucky to have the little darlin
sarah | she is new to the equation
Mis-guided | your gonna love this brian
Lynn <busy> | and you did not know of raph?
MST.Sally's <EBE> | And this crap about the subbie
MST.Sally's <EBE> | being powerless is not true
sarah | their new found intimacy is new to our situation
GrandPaDeSade | Hi there Countess
*Night Spirit* | be true to who you are- be honest with who you are
| with don't hide things or
*Night Spirit* | feelings
Lynn <busy> | i see
Black Knight | oh lord sarah <hugggss> <didn't reqinize you darlin>
*Spartan* | NS/GPDS...the trust in ur relationship needed to be
| well founded b 4 any casual
*Spartan* | play with others could sit well, i know it took
| time for me n tina to be able
*Spartan* | to be comfortable with that as well...trust and the
| loss of jealousy...big
*Spartan* | steps in our relationship......
sarah | and to be honest, i did not know what was happening
Mis-guided | and remember to click your heels together
MoL's Katie J | Ebe, I think the power is shared ... between the D
| and the s
Countess de Sade | Ho GP
*Night Spirit* | EBE I am not powerless in my relationship with GrPa
| I am 50% of that
*Night Spirit* | relationship
*Spartan* | many might not understand that in a relationship
GrandPaDeSade | The sub is not powerless, but many do feel that
| way./
Mis-guided | wish on every star
Countess de Sade | <,hasn't been in Kansas in much too long. and still
| looking for the ruby
Countess de Sade | slippers <s>
sarah | <thinking about what Spartan said>
Mis-guided | follow every rainbow
Lynn <busy> | sarah...many get along just fine in a polyA
| situation
Lynn <busy> | after a few rough spots
sarah | <thinking we had issues before the casual play with
| others>
sarah | but Lyn... i told him i did not want this
*Spartan* | lynn, tina and i do not have a poll-a, but a
| polly-p...relationship.....
sarah | i told him i wasnt ready
GrandPaDeSade | How long were we together befor we started playing
| with others NS?
*Night Spirit* | well I used to date couples, time to time--so have
| 2 folks is not unusual what
*Night Spirit* | was was how GrPa plays he is casual with his
| others, where I perfer a bond---a
*Night Spirit* | love with them
MST.Sally's <EBE> | If your domme loves you... she will
MST.Sally's <EBE> | eventually bow to your wishes.. and
MST.Sally's <EBE> | then I feel terrible cause it wasn't
MST.Sally's <EBE> | what I wanted...
sarah | we are PolyA... but PolyP is another story
*Night Spirit* | GrPa about 6 months
*Spartan* | sarah, are u talking sex or s&m ?
GrandPaDeSade | How well did you trust me then NS?
Lynn <busy> | polyP is play...no bond, am i correct?
BARMAN | Interesting.......
sarah | BDSM, Spartan
*Spartan* | not true lynn
Lynn <busy> | what is it then, Sir?
*Night Spirit* | GrPa some but I was the one who brought in the
| partner
Lynn <busy> | <duh>
*Spartan* | <confused look at sarah>
sarah | why confused?
*Night Spirit* | see to me playing with someone if just fun---a
| relationship with someone is
*Night Spirit* | different
GrandPaDeSade | True NS. But would you have if I didn't want it?
sarah | <thinking we are sooo screwed up it is hard NOT to
| be confused><S>
*Night Spirit* | no dear
*Spartan* | lynn, tina and i have a magnificent bond, however,
| we do not have mulitple
*Spartan* | loves..as in a polly a relationship, however we do
| have casual play partners
*Spartan* | for our s&m.......
*Night Spirit* | sarah hon how are we screwed up?
*Spartan* | <----is in no way screwed up.....very clear
| thinker.....
sarah | i meant Exile and Dave and I and prolly the other
| sub too<ggl>
Black Knight | weep not for the dead their pain is gone. weep for
| the living whose heart has a
Black Knight | hole that the lost once filled
Lynn <busy> | that's what I thought I said, Sir.. .polyP is for
| play
Lynn <busy> | only...no bond with the 3rd party, right?
Countess de Sade | <used to be screwed up when denying my natural state
Countess de Sade | <now very clear thinker <s>
sarah | no bond.. not bondage<light bulb>
sarah | we thought u meant bondage Lynn<S>
Lynn <busy> | lol
*Night Spirit* | see I lived with my ex 17 years, only fun was
| doning plays, I slept on the
*Night Spirit* | floor or closet of my store--I was miserible, now
| my choice was stay or fuck it
*Night Spirit* | leave and have fun
sarah | told ya i was a mess<wink>
*Spartan* | missed ur point lynn on the third
| party.......<s>..sorry hon, but usually we do
*Spartan* | have feelings as we know those we paly with..er i
| play with...er tina...oh
*Spartan* | forget it....<s>
Lynn <busy> | hugs sarah
GrandPaDeSade | NS and I have been looking for a third live-in,
| loving, partner for awhile now.
GrandPaDeSade | So poly is OK for some
*Night Spirit* | we want a 3rd member to love
sarah | what typeof feelings, Spartan?
*Night Spirit* | hard to find
Countess de Sade | I don't know about the Pily thing. would have to
| think that one through
steve/alison | hi
steve/alison | whers brian
Black Knight | <<<<used to think i was so weird cause i thought .
| what i was thinking at the
Black Knight | time was so nasty was so wrong. Then i came here an
| meet you all a relized i am
Black Knight | not wrong just on a different path. i stopped
| walking in the dark and in the
Black Knight | woods and came to the path i now travel. and i
| THANK YOU all For letting me
Black Knight | know that i am not alone
*Night Spirit* | ok to back on topic
*Night Spirit* | we suddenly find ourselves alone----
sarah | yeah, how do we fix me now that I am not sure I can
| make it work at all with Exi
sarah | le?<sigh>
*Night Spirit* | we can talk with friends and cry
GrandPaDeSade | BK, I think we all feel that way when we find the
| others
*Night Spirit* | we can go out again but is it easy to trust again
*Night Spirit* | sarah as in all things one day at a time
Black Knight | true GrandPa
*Spartan* | sarah, my play can get intense at times, i find,
| without a bond of in most
*Spartan* | cases friendship, and an awareness of the sub to
| trust me , i will not just
*Spartan* | play casually with unknowns............as they may
| , if not witnessing my play
*Spartan* | with tina, get more than they ask for....might not
| be a good
*Spartan* | thing....<s>...this is my level of
| responsibility......
Xena wp | hello all
Countess de Sade | <s> at BK. <<<pssst. me too.. <g>
GrandPaDeSade | And should we try to trust again, easy or not?
BARMAN | How is it that we never recognise the moment when
BARMAN | love begins, but we always know when it ends?
*Night Spirit* | Barman good point
steve/alison | so
Countess de Sade | Because it slodes happily in and
MoL's Katie J | very good point, Barman
sarah | that Bond is what makes me nervous, Spartan
Countess de Sade | GOES OUT wuth a BANG.
BARMAN | If I am interupting, let me know....
*Night Spirit* | I met GrPa about 6 months after SL left, at first
| we played, and saw each other
*Night Spirit* | casually--but took a long time to trust again
Black Knight | trust is never an easy thing to aquire NS i think
| so of course it is not easy .
GrandPaDeSade | BARMAN, this is an open discussion, but we do have
| a subject
Countess de Sade | It isn't easy to acquure un "normal" circumstances
| either
GrandPaDeSade | How did you learn to trust again NS?
BARMAN | I gathered, that's why I'm still here.
Black Knight | it takes time always the ever presence of time to
| heal wounds to find your
Black Knight | smile to love again and to trust
*Night Spirit* | it is funny I began to trust GrPa when we went for
| a walk 2 months after
*Night Spirit* | meeting and he quit being a Dom he became a man to
| me--he seemed real suddenly
macgiver5 | had a heck of time figuring out how to get here
*Spartan* | sarah, i have played casually with many of our very
| close friends.....they
*Spartan* | trust me, are aware of who and what i am, and of my
| play b 4 they enter into
*Spartan* | discussion with me regarding the possibilities of
| playing with me..........a
*Spartan* | must for our initial conversations to
| begin.......else it does not
*Spartan* | happen....without a clear understanding on my part
| of what they wish, i cannot
*Spartan* | enter into the temporary contract<usually
| verbal>......
sarah | thats funny, NS.. i can remember seeing that with
| Exile too
Countess de Sade | NS.. that has to be the same for all in
| relationships. the reality???
macgiver5 | does everyone run 9600this is slow
*Night Spirit* | no Countess wasn't the same with my ex----sometimes
| I am not sure I ever found
*Night Spirit* | his reality
Countess de Sade | hmmmmm.. I couldn't enter ino anything without the
| reality
GrandPaDeSade | No, macgiver, we run faster modems. 28,800 to 56K
| for most I think. But the
GrandPaDeSade | system is slow anyway.
*Night Spirit* | GrPa was talking about his kids, with pride, love
| and fustrations parents
*Night Spirit* | show--he changed on that second to a man I knew I
| could love and trust--I felt
*Night Spirit* | alive again
BARMAN | Life is like a never ending game of footbal, but in
| this
BARMAN | game the goalposts move, not the players. On that
BARMAN | point, I wish you all well and goodnight
*Night Spirit* | Night Barman be well
Black Knight | when the relationship goes from a <<for example:: a
| call into private and the
Black Knight | first thing out of someones mouth is '' how may i
| serve you '' or " on your
Black Knight | knees" changes into hello darlin how was you day
| and such . A converstaion than
Black Knight | play. Is when it has become something real to me .
| i suppose
GrandPaDeSade | Night BARMAN
Black Knight | night Barman
*Night Spirit* | BK--interesting
Black Knight | i fell when that happend a little trust has been
| aquired
Black Knight | a little trust
Black Knight | of i can be your freind now
Black Knight | not just a playtoy
Countess de Sade | <agrees with BK
Black Knight | <<,is hard to explain hope you get what i am trying
| to say
Black Knight | but then again trust and human nature is one of the
| great mysteries of life
GrandPaDeSade | "On your knees" was a command NS obeyed in the
| first 20 min we were together.
GrandPaDeSade | Trus took much longer.
*Night Spirit* | so if we break up we should not go hide, we need to
| try to slowly get back into
*Night Spirit* | the swing of things, see friends again and if
| someone comes along--try again
GrandPaDeSade | So I agree
Black Knight | thanks Grand pa that means alot to me<s>
Black Knight | never surrender NightSprit
Black Knight | <S>
*Night Spirit* | good point BK
Countess de Sade | <s>
*The Inspector* | yes BK try again..........
Black Knight | in the words or Al pacino in " Senct of a Woman "
| there is no prostetic for an
Black Knight | aputated sprit"
GrandPaDeSade | We live the lifestyle on a 24/7 basis. But reality
| dictates there is much more
GrandPaDeSade | to life than simply "me dom, you sub"
Black Knight | yes i agree fully GrandPa
*Spartan* | yea, and did u clean up after the dog in the yard
| yet too..................lol
raphaela | <grins at GrandPa> Yes, we need a *boy* and
| *cheetah* too
*Night Spirit* | so we all know if the worse happens we can overcome
| it, will take time, need to
*Night Spirit* | not shut ourselves in, communicate with others, one
| day at a time and give
*Night Spirit* | ourselves time
Countess de Sade | Healing us a process..
Lynn <busy> | hugs raph <s>
Black Knight | yup yup yup NS
raphaela | hugs Lynn <g> If I could tell time, I'd actually
| make it to conferences when I
raphaela | was supposed to
JOY | is it over?
Lynn <busy> | <G>
Countess de Sade | <s> at Raph
*Night Spirit* | ok so is it or isn't it different, harder or same
| as breaking up a vanilla
*Night Spirit* | relationship--to me harder because of the trust
Countess de Sade | I vote MUCH harder
MR's ~littlepet~ | <peeking in>
Black Knight | hmmmm harder
*Night Spirit* | no Joy not for a bit
raphaela | I'm not sure that it is harder, having done both
JOY | <S> thanks NS
kara (C) | harder........
raphaela | love is love, and trust is trust
raphaela | you can't put degrees on it
GrandPaDeSade | I love sex. I could stay in bed having sex all day.
| But the world demands other
GrandPaDeSade | things from us, and many must be faced as partners.
Baby~Wings~ | <joins carrie at the door>
Countess de Sade | <has done both also .sgh HARDER
MoL's Katie J | Ah, but I've never let anyone in this deeply before.
MoL's Katie J | Never.
thrasher | little in da house yall jk
MoL's Katie J | therefore, the pain of a breakup would be that much
| worse.
JOY | Wings ,hug>
Baby~Wings~ | hugggs JOY <s>
MR's ~littlepet~ | Yes I think it is harder
raphaela | I actually let my vanilla fiance in more deeply
| than my former Dom...maybe that
raphaela | is the issue...who gets in more deeply
*Night Spirit* | raph good point
GrandPaDeSade | I understand Katie. But it's a risk we take for
| happiness.
raphaela | but in a D/s relationship, you have more ammunition
| in a nasty breakup
*Night Spirit* | maybe it is who we let in deeper
Black Knight | <but i have been lucky i suppose when i have had
| break ups i work wih who i
Black Knight | have broken up with and we kinda have guided each
| other back into the world to
Black Knight | find love and trust again. I so far have not had
| those i have just left behind
Black Knight | but taken together into something new just with
| someone else
*Night Spirit* | raphaela that is true that is why the trust issue
| is hard to lose
sarah | <sigh>
raphaela | I think it is easier to delve more deeply in a D/s
| relationship, because trust
raphaela | is the MAIN issue
GrandPaDeSade | That works both ways raphaela
raphaela | so breaking up takes on a new dimension
Countess de Sade | <agrees
GrandPaDeSade | Agree
raphaela | that vanilla break ups don't have to face
Black Knight | but if you use ammunition in a break up you dissole
| a realtionship in a very
Black Knight | terrible way
*Night Spirit* | so no easy solutions huh?
raphaela | <nod @ BK>
Black Knight | a very very horrible way i think
Black Knight | it is a break up it should not be a war
MoL's Katie J | absolutely, BK
Countess de Sade | sigh........there is never any easy solitions when
| dealing woth human emotions
Countess de Sade | anyway. on that note. I talke my leave...good
| evening <s>
raphaela | exactly BK
GrandPaDeSade | All but one of my breakups have been friendly. And
| that one was one-sidedly
GrandPaDeSade | unpleasant
*Night Spirit* | ok BK if a BDSM D/s relationship breaks up is it
| war? or can it end friendly?
MoL's Katie J | too many people use a break up as an excuse to
| attack.
sarah | it has been war, and i do not want that
Black Knight | i have had all mine end freindly after a time of
| turmol
Baby~Wings~ | <waves to CdS>
raphaela | NS, I think it can end friendly
*Night Spirit* | Good Night countess and thank you for comming
raphaela | my former Dom and I ended friendly
GrandPaDeSade | Night CDS
raphaela | ...after a serious of small skirmishes <g>
thrasher | im a 27 year old looking 4 a god women i just
| had a divorce 3 months ago
thrasher | if interested press 789 or page me
MR's ~littlepet~ | I feel is beniftion to both parties when a break up
| occurs to talk about it
MoL's Katie J | Everyone, friendly ... except my ex ..... and I
| always broke the relationship.
Black Knight | i fell that if there was love there and trust in a
| realtion ship. use what love
Black Knight | you have to not hurt the other anymore for the loss
| will be great enough to get
Black Knight | over
thrasher | make em say uhhh da dan da da
MR's ~littlepet~ | Break-ups can be learniing experanices also
thrasher | polly wants a cracker
*Night Spirit* | ok so we feel it may be good to talk things over
| and try not to be enimies,
*Night Spirit* | even though it is over, and try talking to firneds
| and getting out--anything
*Night Spirit* | else?
thrasher | mmmmmeeeeeeeeeooooooowwwww
Black Knight | ummmm cookies help NS<S>
*Night Spirit* | friends
GrandPaDeSade | My ex still thinks I'm hers. I haven't lived with
| her for 4 years or so, and
GrandPaDeSade | have been divorced for awhile. She won't accept the
| fact.
MR's ~littlepet~ | dont hold grugdes !!!
DRAGLID | No rebound marriage BK. Take your time!
sarah | g'nite to all<S>
*Night Spirit* | littlepet that is a good one
MR's ~littlepet~ | <cant spell tonight>
*The Inspector* | nite sarah
Black Knight | night sarah darlin
raphaela | goodnight sarah
MR's ~littlepet~ | <S> thanks
Black Knight | yes no chips on your shoulders
Baby~Wings~ | bye sarah <s>
*Night Spirit* | take your time also a good point
MR's ~littlepet~ | nite sara
JOY | nite sara
*Night Spirit* | Night sara
Black Knight | man i have seen beautiful women turn digustingly
| ugly walking around with a
Black Knight | chip on their shoulder
raphaela | NS, we have to accept what our partners want,
| too...to take the time to learn
raphaela | what their new roles are
raphaela | just because someone isn't a lover/Dom/sub/spouse
| anymore doesn't mean we can't
raphaela | have them in our lives
GrandPaDeSade | That's what is happening to my ex BK
raphaela | ...just have to find out which corner they occuppy
*Night Spirit* | raph good point
Black Knight | be who you are be honest be yourself
*Night Spirit* | ok any last words?
MR's ~littlepet~ | Yes I do
Black Knight | four score and seven years ago
Black Knight | <shaking head> umm nevermind<S>
*Night Spirit* | yes littlepet?
GrandPaDeSade | Nite sara
MR's ~littlepet~ | Dont judge people if you think they get a new
| partner in a timeframe you may
MR's ~littlepet~ | think is too soon
*Night Spirit* | ah another good point
MR's ~littlepet~ | because you may not know the circumstances
MoL's Katie J | I think the "don't judge people" is perfect just
| there <S>
MR's ~littlepet~ | <is done
*The Inspector* | but carrie.........what if you truly feel they may
| not know what they are getting
*The Inspector* | into
MR's ~littlepet~ | Well be a freind to them
*Night Spirit* | ok all I would esp like to thank Katie J as always
| she is the reason we are all
*Night Spirit* | here and we all adore her (hugs)
*The Inspector* | I dont judge.............but I sit back and
| wait...........
GrandPaDeSade | I always try to not judge anyone. Of course that is
| impossible, being human. So
GrandPaDeSade | I leave the judgement open for revisions.
MoL's Katie J | thanks, NS, but we come for each other, I think <s>
Lynn <busy> | huggs Katie, NS and GrandPa
*Night Spirit* | I also wish to thank you all for comming and giving
| us all pointers
Black Knight | nee nee and me now it will not last she loves her
| husband emmensly and i will
Black Knight | not get between that. so i will have a hard time
| when it comes to leave her .
Black Knight | for i do love her. but we both know we cannot stay
| together. that just somthing
Black Knight | i wanted to say
JOY | <<<katie....>>>>
MoL's Katie J | huggggs, NS and Grandpa
Black Knight | <hugggss thanks katie>
DRAGLID | You must relearn to love yourself and relearn to
| trust yourself, then try
raphaela | hugss NS and Katie...thanks for the conference!
*Night Spirit* | excellant point DRAGLID
Black Knight | <shakes Grandpa> you don't know how much a young
| pup like me is honored for
Black Knight | someon like yourself to aggree with me
GrandPaDeSade | DRAGUD. Perfect last words!
Black Knight | <kisses Nightsprits hand> lovly as ever darlin<w>
*Night Spirit* | I will be making a new list of topics this week if
| you want to host or have any
*Night Spirit* | ideas email me 102404,2505
*Night Spirit* | Night BK, was wonderful having you here
MoL's Katie J | I'll start a Thread on the board for it, NS
MR's ~littlepet~ | nite all
MoL's Katie J | about what topics we might include.
*The Inspector* | nite carrie
*Night Spirit* | thanks Katie :)
GrandPaDeSade | Thank you BK. But I'm just a nother human trying to
| get along in the world.
kara (C) | thank you everybody, very interesting evening......
Black Knight | night every body <waving>
*Night Spirit* | <group hugs> because if you were here in my house I
| would hug ya'll
Black Knight | <huuggggsss>
Baby~Wings~ | <blows a kiss to BK>
GrandPaDeSade | Night all
JOY | nie <<<all...>>>>>>>
********** 11/15/98 5:58 PM End logging Silken Ties.