Differences in Male and Female Dom/me and submissives

********** 8/2/98  5:02 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
            ~wrywry~ | evening <s>
   MoL's Katie J*brb | hugs wry
                     | hugs NS
                     | <runs to little subbies' room>
            midnight | hello, anyone there?
           Limelight | hi
                     | hi
                     | pretty dormant place this
                     | like the people
         Pannddora @ | Hugs all
           Limelight | hi pandorra
                     | dd
           ~G~matter | good evening all <s>
           Limelight | hey
         White Tiger | hi all!!
           Limelight | G
                     | hi white
        Night Spirit | good evening all
           Limelight | spirit
           ~G~matter | Night Spirit.....hello
         White Tiger | hi NS
        Night Spirit | hiya all :) I am on a new computer with 4.0 so 
                     | forgive me for messing anything
        Night Spirit | up--not used to this new fangled windows thingie :)
       MoL's Katie J | Good Evening <s>
   Master of Leisure | Good evening,,,NS........
           ~G~matter | hi Katie <s>
         Pannddora @ | <s>  NS..you'll get the hang of it in no time
         Pannddora @ | Hugs Katie and MoL
   Master of Leisure | hugggs..pannie
       MoL's Katie J | hiya Gmatter :-)
                effy | <waves>
       MoL's Katie J | hugs, Pann
       MoL's Katie J | huggs, effy
   Master of Leisure | waves back at effy,,,,thank god this room is air
   Master of Leisure | conditioneed
            ~wrywry~ | <going over to sit by eff>
       MoL's Katie J | <kisses my Master's cheek>
                effy | <making room>
           ~G~matter | <giggle> Katie..Master wont be here....but what the 
                     | heck
       MoL's Katie J | ok, I have a pitcher of Ice Tea, and lots of 
                     | cookies ... we're ready G<>
            ~wrywry~ | <looking at ~G~matter>
                Aria | hello all
        Night Spirit | I hope so, :)
            ~wrywry~ | hi aria <s>
         Pannddora @ | LOL MoL...perhaps we shoudl get Katie a fan for you?
         White Tiger | hi aria
   Master of Leisure | squeezes her tight..
           ~G~matter | <looking at wrywry<s>
            ~wrywry~ | are you someone in disguise?  <ggl>
       MoL's Katie J | we're glad to have you with us, G :)
       MoL's Katie J | Aria .. welcome <hugs>
   Master of Leisure | hehehe.......she lights my fire,,,pannie,,,,,,thank
   Master of Leisure | god for air conditioning
           ~G~matter | nnnnooo......dont think so <s>
         Pannddora @ | <BG>  That's so cute MoL
   Master of Leisure | hiyas,,,aria,,,,you made it....hon
            ~wrywry~ | <smiling at the MoL's>
            ~wrywry~ | nice to meet you ~G~ <s>
                Aria | oh how annoying system tells me that i am speaking 
                     | too quickly <sigh>
       MoL's Katie J | Aria, that's a forum glitch ....
           ~G~matter | nice to meet you too wrywry
         Pannddora @ | Aria...leave and come back it, it will clear it...
   Master of Leisure | hello...G
            ~wrywry~ | or is it ~matter?
       MoL's Katie J | you might need to leave and come back
        Night Spirit | After a few tiny bugs here they were able to get 
                     | Silken Ties totally set up for
        Night Spirit | us :)
           ~G~matter | goodevening Master of Leisure
       GrandPaDeSade | Hello all.
            ~wrywry~ | <clapping for our ops>
                Lynn | hello <s> waving
   Master of Leisure | call me MoL.......G....everyone else does
                effy | <waves to GrPa>
           ~G~matter | thankyou....i will!
   Master of Leisure | Good evening,,GPDS
                Lynn | no one told me this was in keychat :((
       MoL's Katie J | good evening, Grandpa
            ~wrywry~ | awh.. sowwy, Lynnie <smooch>
                Lynn | evenin, Grandpa <S>
                effy | <thinks we need a runner to go to ichat and tell em 
                     | to
                effy | come here>
   Master of Leisure | chuckling.....somehow you found
   Master of Leisure | it,,,,Lynn...hugggs
       MoL's Katie J | Lynn, shall I put you on the mailing list?
                Lynn | smoochies wry and Kate <S>
            ~wrywry~ | I'll go.
            ~wrywry~ | brb
                Lynn | I sure did..
       GrandPaDeSade | Good evening effy, MOL, Katie, Lynn
                Lynn | please Kate.. <S>
                Lynn | thanks
                Lynn | smoochies MoL, Sir
        Night Spirit | welcome all to the Sunday Ties (I just made that 
                     | up) a weekly CO about
        Night Spirit | different D/s BDSM subjects--tonight's topic is 
                     | Differences in the
        Night Spirit | sexes--differences
        Night Spirit | between male and feamle subs and Doms
        Night Spirit | female even
         ~LT~'s dove | Good evening everyone
                Lynn | huggs NS <s> smooch
   Master of Leisure | evening,,,dove
        Night Spirit | or is there a difference?  Asub is a sub and a Dom 
                     | is a Dom?
       GrandPaDeSade | Oh heck, I thought you had created a new sex NS
         ~LT~'s dove | hello MoL
        Night Spirit | hugs Lynn
            ~wrywry~ | no one there <plopping back down next to eff>
                effy | thanks wrywry <s>
       GrandPaDeSade | Hi wry
            ~wrywry~ | hi GrPa <s>
        Night Spirit | so who shall start tonight?
                Lynn | you could have asked me.. I was there <s>
        Night Spirit | MoL how about you
            ~wrywry~ | ahhh didn't know Lynnie.
       GrandPaDeSade | Lynn meet wrywry
                Lynn | s'ok honey
                Lynn | <S>
                Aria | going to try this one more time
       GrandPaDeSade | Meeting the hard way
        Night Spirit | do you think there is a difference in how a male or 
                     | female might Dom someone?
                Lynn | wrywry is my dear friend Grandpa <S>
   Master of Leisure | looks at NS
       MoL's Katie J | there you are, Aria!
            ~wrywry~ | her's my sweetie too, GrPa <s>
       GrandPaDeSade | I know, just giving you two a hard time Lynn
                Lynn | Big loves Aria <S>
   Master of Leisure | well,,NS.......it is a different 
                     | perspective.........
                Lynn | ohh <s> duh.. Grandpa <ggl>
   Master of Leisure | a Domme may be more mental in control at
   Master of Leisure | times......
   Master of Leisure | whereas a Dom may be more physical
           ~G~matter | agreed!
        Night Spirit | explain?
                effy | i have always wondered, are dommes more (how do I
                effy | ask this?) physical mental?
       GrandPaDeSade | Note all of those "May"'s though
                effy | thanks MoL
   Master of Leisure | a Dom may have a tendency to use his
   Master of Leisure | hands,,or a crop or a flogger or cat or single tail
   Master of Leisure | sooner or to a greater degree with a female
   Master of Leisure | sub or slave
       MoL's Katie J | NS ... you Domme sometimes .. would you agree with 
                     | that?
   Master of Leisure | whereas a Domme may have him/her do more
   Master of Leisure | mental task to test their obedience and trust
                effy | or *say* they are doing "x" to get the reaction
        Night Spirit | MoL you have touched on things I do understand and 
                     | in many ways agree
                Lynn | I think Dommes are more forward.. if I may say so
                Aria | difference between a man and a woman as in the 
                     | Domination... and I might not
                Aria | get another chance to speak with the way things are 
                     | going here
       GrandPaDeSade | I do think a domme has more of a tendency to use 
                     | "mind fucks" then a dom does.
        Night Spirit | There are things I do Domming women or men I can 
                     | not do to the opposite
   Master of Leisure | more mental...GPDS...that is what I mean
   Master of Leisure | i do not Dom a man ..so I have no perspective
   Master of Leisure | there...
        Night Spirit | I love to make a male sub go through the paces, 
                     | where female it is more touch
        Night Spirit | orientated
               CA§EY | hi every body
       MoL's Katie J | what do you mean .. go through the paces?
        Night Spirit | MoL at parties do you find this to be the  
                     | same?--observation?
                Aria | oh please let this have worked
                effy | go thru the paces? i didn't think that this was 
                     | *work*!
                Lynn | <hangs on to Aria.. sits on her>
   Master of Leisure | ye,,,,NS........
                Aria | thanks Lynn
                Lynn | yup <S>
                Aria | is not that, the system won't let me speak
                Aria | but it seems better... now
       GrandPaDeSade | Male submissive are more into humiliation then 
                     | female subs from what I have
       GrandPaDeSade | seen. That enters the equation too.
                Aria | so what did I miss?
        Night Spirit | Aria leave and come back hon--it is a bug in the 
                     | system
       GrandPaDeSade | Aria, have you tried leaving then coming back?
                Aria | I agree with you on that GrandPaDeSade
                effy | three times she has
                Aria | four times, this one seems to have worked
       GrandPaDeSade | Ok, sorr Aria
       MoL's Katie J | so far .. that female Dommes are more likely to use 
                     | mental techniques
        Night Spirit | :)
           ~G~matter | so you think that male subbies like punishment for 
                     | punishments sake?
                Aria | no, i think that male submissives want/need 
                     | humiliation
        Night Spirit | no G matter not so much punishment as willing to do 
                     | certain tasks
                Aria | its an imperative part of the makeup of the male 
                     | submissives that I have owned
                Aria | myself, and those that I know first hand...
        Night Spirit | I think it has to do somewhat with the sterotypes 
                     | of what is a male and female
        ~Jacqueline~ | <having a seat>
        ~Jacqueline~ | hello all...<s>
                Aria | don't know, i have had both...
        Night Spirit | hugs Jacqueline :)
                Aria | hello Jacqueline <G>
                Lynn | I have a problem.. that I'd like to discuss at some
                Lynn | point here tonight
                Lynn | hugs jac <S>
           ~G~matter | hhhmm....most male submissive that i have 
                     | encountered...want to be
           ~G~matter | punished.....and as a submissive...i do not agree 
                     | with this practice
        Night Spirit | well dressing a male as femme is more humilitating 
                     | then dressing a female as
        Night Spirit | male
                Aria | but I think that you might be right in the societal 
                     | sterotypes Night Spirit
       GrandPaDeSade | A general observation. Submisives are often in 
                     | control in their business lives,
       GrandPaDeSade | and give it up by submitting.
       GrandPaDeSade | The oposit for some doms.
                Lynn | <s@ Grandpa> yesss
        Night Spirit | G matter I agree I do not like to play punish the 
                     | sub---I like setting a set of
        Night Spirit | rules and hope they follow it
   Master of Leisure | In general,,,i agree with lyou,,,GPDS......
           ~G~matter | <<<very much in control in business <s>
         110453,1700 | <enters quietly>
   Master of Leisure | but I do know Doms that are in total control in
   Master of Leisure | their business life and enjoy being the
   Master of Leisure | Dominant
                Aria | me too MoL
                effy | personally, for me, sometimes being punished for
                effy | things in the "scene" allows me to put paid to 
                     | things
                effy | IRL, and lets me not worry about them anymore :)
                Aria | it seems to be more than just that..
        Night Spirit | I have noticed that in my observations male subs 
                     | seem more into handling harder
        Night Spirit | tasks then a female sub ---females tend to perfer 
                     | touches
       GrandPaDeSade | No rule is ever absolute.
           ~G~matter | harder tasks....define
        Night Spirit | MoL do you think that is normal or exception to the 
                     | rule?
                Aria | explain that please Night Spirit?
   Master of Leisure | i think effy makes a good point,,,,i know
   Master of Leisure | submissives who are very dominant in RL and
   Master of Leisure | yet will allow their dominant to control them in
   Master of Leisure | whatever is desired
                Lynn | that is me, Sir.. to a tee
                effy | oooh touches <s>
                effy | the being open and taken and having hands and
                effy | spanks all over your little body, nothing held back
                effy | <swoon>   --- i agree with that!
                effy | <thud!>
                Aria | so we will leave those of us who are switchs alone 
                     | for now, eh?
           ~G~matter | <giggles>
   Master of Leisure | well,,,,,NS.....i think female subs enjoy the
   Master of Leisure | touches much more than the male
   Master of Leisure | submissives that I have seen.......i would agree
   Master of Leisure | tht male submissives will do more mumiliating
   Master of Leisure | and more punishable tasks......
        Night Spirit | well ok I had a male sub here 2 months ago we 
                     | played clamp trivia and I swatted
        Night Spirit | well male subs (to me) seem to like cleaning 
                     | floors, being a maid, willing to
        Night Spirit | do tasks on 1 foot, I have not met many females 
                     | willing to be a maid
       MoL's Katie J | no, Aria, not at all .... you can see things from 
                     | both sides.
           ~G~matter | oh i see <s> you are right
       MoL's Katie J | we are maids in real life all too often .. no 
                     | thrill to be had there. <spit>
                Lynn | lol
                effy | from my perspective.. aren't all of those things
                effy | (whether we want to admit it or not) considered
                effy | women's work? and why would women get off on
                effy | doing it?
       GrandPaDeSade | Right katie
        Night Spirit | I agree MoL I see more femme subs enjoy a spanking 
                     | then a kiss or hug, touches
        Night Spirit | between swats.  Males seem more of what's next 
                     | Ma'am and want harder goals to
        Night Spirit | fulfill
                Aria | talked to Spartan about that the last time we 
                     | talked...
               Jenni | <<sneaking in very quietly......with apologies for 
                     | lateness>
                effy | thier ambition and competitive sense, GrPa?
   Master of Leisure | hiya,,,jenni,,,,,welcome
        Night Spirit | hello Jenni :)
                Aria | but my take on my submission,, and this is me 
                     | alone, is that I want hard
                Aria | tasks.. things that challenge my heart, my soul, my 
                     | body
               Jenni | Hiya MoL
                Aria | hello Jenni
               Jenni | Hello NS <s>
               Jenni | hi Aria
   Master of Leisure | men ,,in general,,tend to be more competitive
   Master of Leisure | than women and will do harder tasks to
   Master of Leisure | accomplish their means
       MoL's Katie J | I would prefer tasks I can complete successfully.
        Night Spirit | Aria on that note, would you get turned on just 
                     | following tasks, no touch, just
        Night Spirit | orders?
       MoL's Katie J | some of the time, at least.
                Aria | Extreme pain, extremely difficult tasks, demands to 
                     | strive for my standard of
                Aria | perfection..
            ~wrywry~ | I don't agree about the competitive aspect MoL
                effy | and want things that they will not be asked to do in
                effy | everyday life?
        Night Spirit | ah why wry?
                effy | like cleaning and dressing - etc... things they find
                effy | slightly humiliating, and not mainstream?
   Master of Leisure | in what way,,wry,,,,,,i said in general..i know
   Master of Leisure | many competitive women too
       GrandPaDeSade | I think many women are used to being ignored by 
                     | busy men, they need tender
       GrandPaDeSade | touches. To used to attempts to "Use" them.
   sexy  ali         | hi
               Jenni | <<agrees with GrandPa
        Night Spirit | hello ali :)
                Aria | If the task involves my mind, my body gets wet, but 
                     | then I am very very wet
                Aria | most of the time anyway...
   Master of Leisure | you accomplish your tasks,,,very
   Master of Leisure | successfully,,,little one,,,,,<s>
           ~G~matter | i'd rather be spanked then to be rejected of have 
                     | him disappointed with me
        Night Spirit | I know for myself I love him touching, cuddling, 
                     | kissing me and feel it is
        Night Spirit | needed, I am not sure if males feel the need as 
                     | much for soft touches during
        Night Spirit | play?
                josh | hey all!!!
        Night Spirit | hello josh
   sexy  ali         | hi
                josh | hey night
       GrandPaDeSade | rejection is a bigger thing for female subs than 
                     | male I think.
                Aria | Some do Night Spirit, but I find that they are more 
                     | into the mental aspect of
                Aria | it, and then the harsh humiliatting physical parts 
                     | of it...
        Night Spirit | G matter do you like soft touches during play?
   Master of Leisure | i think they do feel the need for the touch,,,the
   Master of Leisure | cuddle ,,,the kiss,,,,,,but not as much as the
   Master of Leisure | need for physical tasks.....
           ~G~matter | yes....very much
                Aria | My male sub, my first male sub, wanted cuddling,, 
                     | kissing, petting all the time
        Night Spirit | MoL the cuddle and kissing afterwards or during? as 
                     | a female sub I want it
        Night Spirit | crave it during play
       MoL's Katie J | Depends on the scene, doesn't it?
   Master of Leisure | more so ...for the male sub,,,afterward.....NS......
                Aria | but he was also more into humiliation than my 
                     | female one... my female one
                Aria | wanted to deal with her pain,, and then be cuddled 
                     | and told she was a good
                Aria | girl, that she could orgasm
        Night Spirit | then I am odd gal out her--so far <sigh> never had 
                     | a male sub seemed interested
        Night Spirit | in a touch
        TI's~mystic~ | <slips quietly in>
        Night Spirit | yep afterwards very much so
               Jenni | hiya mystic <s>
        Night Spirit | hiya mystic
        TI's~mystic~ | hello Jenni....NS...
        TI's~mystic~ | sorry i'm late...please go on
            ~wrywry~ | don't we always say that each relationship is 
                     | different, NS? <s>
                Aria | hello mystic rain dear
   Master of Leisure | katie makes a good point,,NS...it does depend
   Master of Leisure | on the scene and what the dominant is trying to
   Master of Leisure | accomplish in the scene
        Night Spirit | wry you betcha :)
        Night Spirit | MoL this is very true
               Jenni | <<thinks because the rejection factor is huge, in 
                     | my mind, that the kisses and
               Jenni | cuddles and touches during the play are absolutely 
                     | critical.
   Master of Leisure | and it is,,,wry.....each relationship is
   Master of Leisure | unique...and it should be.......
       MoL's Katie J | there are scenes where a soft touch would be out of 
                     | place.
                Aria | perhaps they had explored that with another 
                     | Dominant NS? and wanted something
                Aria | different with  you?
        Night Spirit | Jenni that is an excellant point
        Night Spirit | Aria this is possible :)
   Master of Leisure | more for a female....sub,,jenni,,,than a male
   Master of Leisure | sub
               Jenni | yes
        Night Spirit | so we do feel there is some difference in male and 
                     | female subs--how about Doms?
                Aria | can I say something here?
                effy | will the system let you, Aria? <g>
        Night Spirit | yes Aria please do :)
      Yvette-(smoky) | hi guys.... how is everybody today!
           ~G~matter | never had encountered a Domme <s>
        Night Spirit | hello yvette
                Aria | i feel almost like an alien, tonight, because I do 
                     | not want to be cuddled, to
                Aria | be kissed and loved like that... not at all
               Jenni | hmmmm
                Aria | I am most decidedly female <G> though undecidedly 
                     | submissive <G>
            ~wrywry~ | do you mean during scenes?
        Night Spirit | Aria as all things we all act and have different 
                     | needs
       GrandPaDeSade | Aria, if we were predictable, it wouldn't be any 
                     | fun.
                Aria | switch still seems to be the best term for me...
           ~G~matter | i think that maybe a Domme's tongue may be 
                     | sharper.....less forgiving
   Master of Leisure | aria,,,,,then what do you prefer...?
        Night Spirit | I find when I Domme I am more interested in being 
                     | orginal in tasks and seeing
        Night Spirit | if they can accomplish the task
           huggybear | ~!@#$%^&*()_
                Aria | Strength, mental domination, knowledge taht the 
                     | person is dependable, that they
                Aria | will help me continue to face each and every fear 
                     | that I have
   Master of Leisure | oone must know thyself ..aria
       .Looney Tunes | .....silken ties....................
        Night Spirit | Aria after play with a male sub do you enjoy 
                     | touching then?
        Night Spirit | hello Loony and huggybear
       .Looney Tunes | ...aria pull the hood doit...
   Master of Leisure | then,,,you need a strong Dominant to control
   Master of Leisure | you...aria
                Aria | yes... cuddling them, pulling them into my lap, 
                     | making them feel safe...
             M Diver | Hello All
   Master of Leisure | both mentally,,physically,,,emotionally and
   Master of Leisure | psychologically......not all Dominants can fulfill
   Master of Leisure | those rolees
                Aria | I want to know that when I fight him or her, that 
                     | they will not accept it, that
                Aria | they set a standard that I want to achieve....
                Aria | MoL i am well aware of that..
               Jenni | I've got a real newby question..........
                effy | and keep the standard no matter what
        Night Spirit | yes Jenni?
       GrandPaDeSade | Yes Jeni
               Jenni | I never thought of fighting.........it never enters 
                     | my mind........
   Master of Leisure | you set high standards....i respect that
   Master of Leisure | immensely
               Jenni | I only want to submit.........
        Night Spirit | Aria sometimes setting goals and meeting 
                     | them--takes time
               Jenni | Is that a problem???????
                Aria | yes, the standard must be maintained effy... 
                     | (looking to Jenni with a smile)
        Night Spirit | no Jenni never, and hugs sweety
                Aria | no dear it is not a problem
           ~G~matter | are not the Dom and Domme's goals the 
                     | same....complete obedience?
   Master of Leisure | not at all..jenni,,,each of us is 
                     | different.......some
   Master of Leisure | Doms only want to control .....
                effy | sometimes the fighting, Jenni, is just to test and 
                     | make sure that he is still stronger than I
                effy | am <s>
               Jenni | ahhhhh
        Night Spirit | we are lucky to have a great mix, Domme, Switches, 
                     | subs (M and F) amd Doms
       GrandPaDeSade | Everyone is different Jenni.
   Master of Leisure | that is only one goal...G....there is the matter of
   Master of Leisure | trust,,,, respect.honor....
                Aria | Jenni... i am so strong seeming,, so capable 
                     | seeming that I need to push
                Aria | against that again and again, to know that they are 
                     | boss
       .Looney Tunes | .......too many weak ones
       GrandPaDeSade | Some enjoy fighting. Others don't.
           ~G~matter | that all walks hand in hand <s>
               Jenni | ok
            *~tina~* | I sometimes feel strange in the fact that I am 
                     | *expecting* such high standards
            *~tina~* | from Spartan.......
               Jenni | thank you.
                Aria | no, i don't think that you should tina...
   Master of Leisure | that is not strange...tina,,,,,,you should expect
   Master of Leisure | high standards
                Aria | Was something that I was talking to Lynn about 
                     | earlier
                effy | i think that it is great that you have someone who 
                     | is as *connsistant* as he is, tina
            *~tina~* | yes.....but it sometimes makes me feel in a 
                     | controlling position MoL......which
            *~tina~* | I do not and will be in
            ~wrywry~ | <<seconds that.
            *~tina~* | willnot be in I mean <s>
        Night Spirit | tina do you get satisfaction when you reach a goal?
            *~tina~* | yes effy....I believe consistancy is a big 
                     | key.....<kisses to you too>
                effy | <s>
   Master of Leisure | let your Dom set his standards...tina,,,that is not
   Master of Leisure | for you to worry about,,,,,,and knowing Spartan,
   Master of Leisure | he will establish high standards for himself
   Master of Leisure | and for you
            *~tina~* | absolutely NS.......my biggest satisfaction within 
                     | our relationship is when
            *~tina~* | Spartan is proud of me....for doing whatever it may 
                     | be.....is a wonderful
            *~tina~* | feeling
                effy | not to mention that Spartan is the ever changing 
                     | high jump goal setter, MoL <s>
                Aria | Our gift is so unique, so special, that it should 
                     | be considered such all the
                Aria | time. When it is taken for granted, it sullies  
                     | what we give... we  have to
                Aria | expect the best from them, and them from us, for 
                     | the relationship to stay
                Aria | balanced... but we must also strive for that 
                     | perfection ourselves,, even if we
                Aria | fall short of it... i think, humbly that is what 
                     | this is all about, as much as
                Aria | the tension and the eroticism within the sex
            *~tina~* | lol effy
   Master of Leisure | and Spartan is highly satisfied with you when
   Master of Leisure | you complete your task.......too......tina
       MoL's Katie J | well said, Aria
                effy | very well spoken, Aria
   Master of Leisure | ROFL...that too...effy..
            *~tina~* | yes MoL....your right.....but no matter what we 
                     | say......as subbies we are even
            *~tina~* | *unconciosly* pushing .....the DOM/Domme
                Aria | thank you both.
                Aria | strong subs push strong Dom/mes I think tina
        Night Spirit | oh Aria I like that
                Aria | maintains the balance
                Aria | like the yin and the yang
           ~G~matter | that was nice Aria
            *~tina~* | there ya go Aria...maintaining the balance.....can 
                     | be hard
        TI's~mystic~ | <s@ Aria>
            *~tina~* | though
   Master of Leisure | true,,,tina,,,,,but the Dom sets the scene and
   Master of Leisure | the tasks for the submissive.........
                Aria | yes... it can fall over, or get pushed aside when 
                     | you go 24/7
   Master of Leisure | overall,,tho ,,it is a mutual situation......
       .Looney Tunes | ....this is not ephemeral!!
       .Looney Tunes | ...or however u spell it
        Night Spirit | ephemeral? what is that?
            *~tina~* | yes MoL......Spartan sets the standards for our 
                     | boundries, I just try to follow
            *~tina~* | them purrfectly <wink>
                Aria | oh, btw, this is not for general consumption, but i 
                     | trust you all with it...
                Aria | Madrigal and I agreed that his collar on my neck is 
                     | not the best situation for
                Aria | us at this time, so as much as we love each other, 
                     | we are no longer a partnered
                Aria | pair <sigh>
   Master of Leisure | greinnin ...slyly,,,,,,as does katie,,,,wink
               Jenni | {{{{ Aria }}}}
        TI's~mystic~ | huggs Aria <s>
        Night Spirit | oh Aria sweety--hugs
                Aria | and I do not mean to put a damper on it... we are 
                     | staying married,, staying in
                Aria | the relationship of living together, he just does 
                     | not think that he wants to
                Aria | own me right now... <g>
   Master of Leisure | I dont mind a strong sub,,,,,"pushing"......at
   Master of Leisure | times.......i like a feisty sub who enjoys her
   Master of Leisure | submissiveness, but has a strong mind to
   Master of Leisure | want things and to let her Dom know about
   Master of Leisure | them......nothing wrong with that
               Jenni | I knew I liked you, MoL ! <g>
                Aria | I agree MoL... but thank you mystic, Jenni, Night 
                     | Spirit
        TI's~mystic~ | afraid i must leave...<sigh> thank you all
        TI's~mystic~ | goodnight
            *~tina~* | bye msytic <S>
               Jenni | bye mystic.
   Master of Leisure | nite,,,,mystic
           ~G~matter | nite msytic
        Night Spirit | Night mystic
   Master of Leisure | katie is busy tonite,,,,,chuckling
       MoL's Katie J | no shit.
   Master of Leisure | smoooooches..sweetie,,,,,,
       MoL's Katie J | kisssssssss
            *~tina~* | Spartan always tells me MoL......he hopes I can 
                     | always be a strong independant
            *~tina~* | woman......outside of our relationship....but 
                     | within.....I am his.......and the
            *~tina~* | *independance* does not apply <g>
        Night Spirit | MoL do you think woman are more feisty then men (as 
                     | subs)?
       MoL's Katie J | define feisty.
            ~wrywry~ | <laffing and thinking of some of our male subbies>
       MoL's Katie J | someone?
   Master of Leisure | very similar with katie,,,tina,,,,,,,,,in our
   Master of Leisure | relationship...she is mine,,,,,,all
   Master of Leisure | mine,,,obedient,,,serving,,loving
   Master of Leisure | ,,caring,,,wanting,,,,,,mentally,
   Master of Leisure | physically,,emotionally ....I will have it no other
   Master of Leisure | way and either will she,,,but in our business life
   Master of Leisure | she is a very strong,,,and independent woman
   Master of Leisure | who makes quick and wise decisions.......i
   Master of Leisure | would have it no other way
               Jenni | feisty = attitudinal <g>
                effy | i think they wanna think they are <s>
                effy | but i think that guys are more likely to be more 
                     | docile to commands for fear of losing the
                effy | domme... good dommes are even harder than good 
                     | Dom's to find
           huggybear | you know I think he was righti
           ~G~matter | Master Grey would not have me if i was weak......he 
                     | enjoys a battle of
           ~G~matter | wit.....he enjoys the callenge
            *~tina~* | <smile> MoL.......
            *~tina~* | true effy...imo
                Aria | A strong show of intelligence, no fear to show will 
                     | and wit... that is what i
                Aria | would term fiesty
               Jenni | <<agrees with Aria
   Master of Leisure | i sure do..NS...male submissives tend to want
   Master of Leisure | to be h umiliated and will not "push" their
   Master of Leisure | Domme/Dom as ahrd
   ElectricBlueyes>M | Sally likes feisty --or she wouldn't have me--she
   ElectricBlueyes>M | said it many times
        Night Spirit | so is it a battle of wits or is it being a smart 
                     | ass just to get a reaction?
   ElectricBlueyes>M | hi all <s>
               Jenni | good question.
                effy | << smartass <gets me in trouble too>
        Night Spirit | hiya EBE
       GrandPaDeSade | I like SAM's
                Aria | but, I agree, more submissives who are male, are 
                     | likely to be more subdued with
                Aria | their Domme...
           ~G~matter | nono....never a smart ass <s>
       MoL's Katie J | I can think of a few times my ass *smarted*
            ~wrywry~ | that's cheeky, eff <g>
   Master of Leisure | shakes,,,EBE
            *~tina~* | lol..katie
                effy | <laffin> wrywry
   ElectricBlueyes>M | well, Aria--I have to disagree with you on
   ElectricBlueyes>M | that--<ducking and running away> LOL
   Master of Leisure | a smart ass,,,,deserves a damn  good
   Master of Leisure | spanking,,,,,,chuckling
                Aria | I am a smart ass, but then I am what is termed a 
                     | SAM too, often
   Master of Leisure | i have a nice paddle for a smart ass.....
            ~wrywry~ | and probably is loooking for one too, MoL <g>
                Aria | and that smart ass, often earns me a smarting ass
               Jenni | Because I have a J instead of a j on my 
                     | name.......I have had many male subs
               Jenni | approach me..........they have come as 
                     | doormats..........   As a sub, myself, I
               Jenni | would never consider approaching as or being a 
                     | doormat.
                Aria | Ebe... dear, I do not own you, and if I did, you 
                     | would behave... <eyes
                Aria | glinting> at least with me...
                Aria | but see MoL I want that when I am a smart ass
                Aria | I want to be spanked
                Aria | I wanted to be punished...
        Night Spirit | ok but do we like a smart assed subbys?
   ElectricBlueyes>M | Aria--I behave, no??
            *~tina~* | <---hates being punished....for real
            ~wrywry~ | <laffing> no Ebe
                Aria | lostonearth just sent me into the corner to behave 
                     | myself... facing away from
                Aria | him
        Night Spirit | <--hates disappointing GrandPa--that is a major 
                     | punishment
       GrandPaDeSade | NS teases me when she wants to be punished. SAM's 
                     | are easy to read.
   Master of Leisure | jenni,,,,,,,notice the little j,,,,,i am not into
   Master of Leisure | doormats,,,,,,,,which I consider is a total loss of
   Master of Leisure | free will by the submissive or fake
   Master of Leisure | submissive.......i want a submissive that is
   Master of Leisure | intelligent and social and conversational
                effy | scene punishment is one thing, real punishment is 
                     | another entirely
               Jenni | yes.
   ElectricBlueyes>M | wrywry--be goodgood <s>
       MoL's Katie J | there ya go, effy
                Aria | Ebe no be good any time soon <g>
               Jenni | I agree with you completely, MoL
           butterfly | I agree that sometimes my Master is not focused and 
                     | being some what a smart ass
   Master of Leisure | good point,,,effy,,,
       GrandPaDeSade | If I really punish her, and she knows I am 
                     | disappointed, that's worse than
       GrandPaDeSade | anything i could do.
                Aria | but you are right effy. scene and real are different
           butterfly | redirects his focus where it needs to be at the time
        Night Spirit | ok so are women subs more of a SAM then a male subs?
   Master of Leisure | your Master should be focussed at al
   Master of Leisure | times,,,butterfly,,,,,,
                effy | the worst punishment is being ignored... or being 
                     | told seriously that they are
                effy | disappointed in you... it hurts me much less to 
                     | suffer a beating than to be head punished.
   ElectricBlueyes>M | If Sally REALLY punishes--it is taking herself away
   ElectricBlueyes>M | from me--
                Aria | in general i would say that women subs, those that 
                     | have been in the scene
                Aria | longer tend to be SAM's
            *~tina~* | ditto effy......
   ElectricBlueyes>M | Yes--exactly effy--that is THE punishment!!
               Jenni | or perhaps, are simply strong within themselves, 
                     | Aria?
            ~wrywry~ | what is SAM again?
                effy | smart assed masochist
   Master of Leisure | yess,,effy,,,mental pumishment is more severe
   Master of Leisure | than physical....knowing that you have
   Master of Leisure | dissapointed your Dom/Domme hurts a lot
   Master of Leisure | more than a flogging
           ~G~matter | i please excuse me everyone....it was nice to meet 
                     | all of you.....and please
           ~G~matter | allow me to introduce my self...i am 
                     | ~Grey~m......submissive to ~Earl
           ~G~matter | Grey~....goodnight...and thankyou
                Aria | no, I think that it is a development... but we can 
                     | get to that too....
            ~wrywry~ | thanks sweetie
            *~tina~* | I feel its actually the opposite aria........least 
                     | for me ....
                Aria | tina do you do SAM with Spartan?
                Aria | ever?
                effy | only all the time, Aria
                effy | <laffin>
            *~tina~* | no I do not........aria.....
                Aria | <g>
   Master of Leisure | good nite,,,G......and say hello..to  EG
           *Spartan* | A good evening to 
                     | all.........................................
               Jenni | Good night G <s>
              marieM | evening all.. Aria.. i think that each preson is
              marieM | different but i think that subs learn that
              marieM | being a SAM isn't really submitting for me..
                Aria | hello Spartan
              marieM | eveing Spartan..
            *~tina~* | but there are times when we are just goofing 
                     | around.......and he does allow me
            *~tina~* | to be that way a bit
        Night Spirit | hugs marie
               Jenni | Hello Spartan <s>
   Master of Leisure | good evening,,,,Spartan..
            *~tina~* | hiya marie <s>
                effy | kiss Spartan <s>   ((teasing tina)) sowwy honey
        Night Spirit | hugs and hot licks Spartan
              marieM | hugs back to all
           *Spartan* | sorry i am late.......my daughters 12t 
                     | birthday...<s>..........huggs n Shakes
                Aria | I kinda have to disagee with you marie.. but then 
                     | we have agreed that I am
                Aria | likely to be a law onto myself
   Master of Leisure | hello...marie,,,,,<s>
   Master of Leisure | huggs..hon
        Night Spirit | Spartan and marie do either of you feel there is a 
                     | difference in male or female
        Night Spirit | subs or Doms (as in technique)?
              marieM | Aria i think it's a personal style more than
              marieM | something you have to agree on..
               Jenni | <<nods at marie
                effy | everyone... it has been wonderful -- please excuse 
                     | me tho -- it is my bedtime ((hugs))
                Aria | <shaking her head, but keeping still>
                Aria | night effy
        Night Spirit | Nighty Night effy sweety
   Master of Leisure | nothing better than a Birthday
   Master of Leisure | party,,,Spartan.....tell her Happy Birthday for us
            *~tina~* | kisses effy<s>
       GrandPaDeSade | Night effy
               Jenni | nite effy <s>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | but a loving Domme can't seem to help but make
   ElectricBlueyes>M | physical punishment kinda fun--true punishment
   ElectricBlueyes>M | is leaving you --nothing worse
              marieM | from personal experience.. and scening
              marieM | with male subs.. I think they are coming
              marieM | from a different head space yes NS
            ~wrywry~ | how many male Doms would keep their subbie locked 
                     | up in some contraption with
            ~wrywry~ | cotton panties underneath for weeks?
   Master of Leisure | niters,,,effy,,,,,,you cutie pie,,,hugggs
            *~tina~* | Spartan has to log off...his csi is messed up...he 
                     | will brb
        Night Spirit | marie please explain :)
   Master of Leisure | not many ...wry
              marieM | female Dom's if anything i find can be more
              marieM | physical.. intimatidating for me
              marieM | intimidating
            ~wrywry~ | <nodding> my point..
           butterfly | my csi is also screwing up
        Night Spirit | how many subs here perfer to ONLY submit to a male 
                     | or female Dom because are
        Night Spirit | scared of the other ?
       MoL's Katie J | there is a glitch which states you are *speaking 
                     | too quickly*
               Jenni | family is home   :-(   this has been very 
                     | interesting......thank you!  <<huggs>>
                Aria | bye Jenni
   Master of Leisure | nite,,,,,jenni
                Aria | take care
        Night Spirit | Night Jenni
       GrandPaDeSade | Night jenni
                Aria | brb all
        Night Spirit | Katie would you be scared to be taken by a Femme 
                     | Dom just because she is female
        Night Spirit | and is she scarier?
                Aria | need to check on something elsewhere
            *~tina~* | I prefer to sub to a male only NS....not a 
                     | Domme.....but not from being scared
            *~tina~* | of a Domme.......its a male thing I 
                     | have.......subbing to a man
            *~tina~* | only....although Id love to bottom to a feamle <g>
           *Spartan* | <hhhmmm a room that doesnt allow more than 1 line 
                     | at a time>....a non-Spartan
           *Spartan* | friendly room i see.....lol
       GrandPaDeSade | I think the screw ups in the CSi software might be 
                     | caused by the switch to 4.0
   Master of Leisure | laffffin.....
       MoL's Katie J | I dont' do women, NS ... so would not submit to a 
                     | female Domme.
   Master of Leisure | getting ready for one of Spartan's long scrolls
           *Spartan* | <---- running 4.0, this is the only place that is 
                     | happening.....
       MoL's Katie J | trying to train you, Spartan.
                Aria | no, i had to leave and return Spartan three times 
                     | for it to work for me
       GrandPaDeSade | Is anyone who is having the problem running 4.0?
           *Spartan* | snick...kj
           *Spartan* | Ns....
        Night Spirit | oh you can't do long lines here it is a tiny bug
              marieM | NightSpirit I would find bottoming to a
              marieM | female Domme hard since that is
              marieM | something that isn't natural for me..
              marieM | although i have experience scening with
              marieM | one.. but Michael was present.. which is a
              marieM | different dynamic altogether
           *Spartan* | are u still up for my answer to ur question ?
       MoL's Katie J | I have had the problem here in many rooms ... and 
                     | run version 3
   ElectricBlueyes>M | scared of the other NS???  that's not it for 
                     | me--just
   ElectricBlueyes>M | prefer women--and agree--Dommes outwardly
   ElectricBlueyes>M | display toughness more--think cause they feel, as
   ElectricBlueyes>M | females they have to
        Night Spirit | yes Spartan
           butterfly | i am hardly speaking how can they say i am speaking 
                     | to quickly
       MoL's Katie J | yes, Spartan, of course we are.
           *Spartan* | one of the only differences I have found between 
                     | male and female Dominants
           *Spartan* | is.......
            *~tina~* | think you may have a point there EBE
        Night Spirit | butterfly it is a bug in the system hon, it has a 
                     | hard time with long lines
        Night Spirit | yes Spartan?
   ElectricBlueyes>M | butterfly--it happened to me throughout last week
   ElectricBlueyes>M | LOL
           *Spartan* | is that female Dominants to *me* seem much more 
                     | *cruel* to their subs.......
            ~wrywry~ | I totally agree, Spartan..
           *Spartan* | and as far as m or f subs.....
            ~wrywry~ | what little real experience that I have was with a 
                     | good male subbie friend and
            ~wrywry~ | I was appalled.
              marieM | Spartan Michael agress about the female Dom's
              marieM | althought he says they are fun to watch
        Night Spirit | EBE do you agree Femme Domme as crueler then Male 
                     | Doms?
   Master of Leisure | you say "cruel"..Spartan,,,,,do you mean
   Master of Leisure | mentally or physically ???
   Master of Leisure | or both
   ElectricBlueyes>M | that;s only in front of others, Spartan--I don't
   ElectricBlueyes>M | know--they like to put their power on display --in
   ElectricBlueyes>M | private, that is not the case
            *~tina~* | I think both MoL......but thats not to say they can 
                     | not be very loving as well
           *Spartan* | male subs to me...seem to not have or rather imo 
                     | *display* as high a level of
           *Spartan* | self esteem or respect, and can be much 
                     | *cattier*....
           *Spartan* | MoL...both, but more towards the physical.....
           butterfly | would "cruel" depend on the relationship you have 
                     | established and agreed upon
   ElectricBlueyes>M | cattier" Spartan---LOLOLOL
         Pannddora @ | I agree with you Spartan and tina...from what I 
                     | have seen, the Dommes do seem
         Pannddora @ | to be much more brutal physically and 
                     | condescending.  However, male submissives
         Pannddora @ | do seem to enjoy the humiliation factore more as 
                     | well.
   ElectricBlueyes>M | purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
   Master of Leisure | the ones that I have seen tina,,,,are very "cruel":
   Master of Leisure | ..more mentally than physically,,,,,,and theydid
   Master of Leisure | show their caring and love for their male
   Master of Leisure | submissive....
           *Spartan* | could be butterfly, but in the examples i site, no, 
                     | they were just f**kin mean
           *Spartan* | n nasty.........
            ~wrywry~ | <nodding>
   Master of Leisure | lafffin,,,,that I agree with ,,,spartan
           *Spartan* | <s>
        Night Spirit | ok so we are in agreement then there really is a 
                     | difference between female and
        Night Spirit | male Doms and female and male subs
           *Spartan* | <wow, less than 47 lines of text and i *can* get my 
                     | poit across...hhhmmmm>
            ~wrywry~ | <laffing>
         Pannddora @ | <s> Spartan, we knew you had it in you
   Master of Leisure | chuckling....see,,,it can be done,,,
              marieM | Spartan.. wincin doesn't seem to have that problem..
              marieM | in this room
            *~tina~* | lol
           butterfly | then wouldn't being "cruel"interfere with moving 
                     | forward in your relationship
           *Spartan* | :::::blush:::::::::
              marieM | oooooooowwwwwwww
   ElectricBlueyes>M | everybody here knows Sally, I think, yes?  She is
   ElectricBlueyes>M | often nasty in the D/s room--it is not the Sally I
   ElectricBlueyes>M | know in private--it is a public display
           *Spartan* | EbE...i have not seen that in
           *Spartan* | Sally
           *Spartan* | at any time
              marieM | EBE.. i think that even if that is true.. it's 
                     | still an
              marieM | element of they basis of the connection
        Night Spirit | ok all any last words?
   Master of Leisure | Sally,,,nasty,,,,,,not that I have seen......
   ElectricBlueyes>M | good , spartan--you don't want to!
              marieM | frankly our public play is not that different other 
                     | than
              marieM | the open seuxal play form privat
           *Spartan* | i am talkin real hard ass, *gotta prove something 
                     | attitudes*......
       MoL's Katie J | Remember, we can always continue discussion on the 
                     | message boards here :)
       .Looney Tunes | ..hello nice people
              marieM | NS can i ask a question on protocal please?
        Night Spirit | yes marie
       MoL's Katie J | hello, LT
       GrandPaDeSade | Go ahead Marie
   Master of Leisure | nothing like a good attitude adjustment.....i
   Master of Leisure | always say,,,Looney
            ~wrywry~ | keep up the good work, ops <s> what's the topic for 
                     | next week?
                josh | hey all
   ElectricBlueyes>M | ohhh--hmmmm--there are so few REAL Dommes
   ElectricBlueyes>M | around--I don't see many at all
              marieM | is spanking for mis-spelling allowed during this
              marieM | CO?
            ~wrywry~ | <ggl>
   Master of Leisure | of course...marie,,,,wink
        Night Spirit | only by Michael
       GrandPaDeSade | We'd all be in trouble marie
   Master of Leisure | chuckling
        Night Spirit | Next week it is "Discover/define what is 
                     | Humiliation and how is it used in the
        Night Spirit | lifestyle.  Do subs really like it?"
           *Spartan* | well....see u all in a bit, we have to 
                     | run....grabbin tina by the hair, twirlin
           *Spartan* | her around onto her ass n draggin her away 
                     | ......<g>.........
            ~wrywry~ | kewl!!!
   ElectricBlueyes>M | LOL--Spartan--the gentle male Dom!!!
   Master of Leisure | nice touch,,,,Spartan,,,,,take care......hugggggs
   Master of Leisure | tina,,,,,,,,soooch
   Master of Leisure | smooch
            ~wrywry~ | something that I really don't understand <g>
            *~tina~* | <smiling real big>...byeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
        Night Spirit | thank you all for comming 
       GrandPaDeSade | Bye Spartin
         Pannddora @ | Byebye All
              marieM | night thanks for the CO..but.. NS i need to talk to 
                     | you
              marieM | about the rules of order.. even though Michael
              marieM | agrees
       MoL's Katie J | Thank you all .. it was a good conference <s>
        Night Spirit | <ggl>
       GrandPaDeSade | Bye pann
           butterfly | bye all
   Master of Leisure | bye,,plannite,,hugggs
   Master of Leisure | thanks,,NS...GPDS...and my lovely katie,,,,,,
              marieM | night all
        Night Spirit | thanks again all for comming and remember to use 
                     | our message boards and library
       GrandPaDeSade | Night MOL, Katie
            ~wrywry~ | night <s>
       GrandPaDeSade | night wry
       MoL's Katie J | Good night Grandpa and NS :-)
                Aria | back <g>
                Aria | did you alll stop talking?
   Master of Leisure | attaching the snap of the leash to her
   Master of Leisure | collar.....and dragging her off ...back to 10
   ElectricBlueyes>M | this reminding me of The Waltons--nite Kate Bob
   ElectricBlueyes>M | LOL
       MoL's Katie J | yes, Aria, we just concluded :(
       GrandPaDeSade | Remember, the success of thei forum will be judged 
                     | on the use of the message
       GrandPaDeSade | areas and lib.
                Aria | wahhhh <G>
                Aria | thats okay
       MoL's Katie J | next week, same time, same place
       MoL's Katie J | Humilation is the topic
                Aria | 8 eastern?
       GrandPaDeSade | Correct
                Aria | Thank you GPDS... 5 Pacific for you and NS... tough 
                     | time on sunday....
        Night Spirit | yep with Kids and work and exs to see and grandkids 
                     | hard for us to schedule it
                Aria | don't i know it <g>
        Night Spirit | :)
        Night Spirit | Night all :)
********** 8/2/98  6:16 PM End logging Silken Ties.