Self Esteem in D/s
********** 10/4/98 4:56 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
*Lynn* | hugggs TI <s>
*The Inspector* | hello
*Lynn* | huggs NS
Lori | hi TI
*The Inspector* | huggs Lynn
*The Inspector* | hi Lori
*Night Spirit* | hello all nice to see you all again :)
*Night Spirit* | hugs Lynn
ZOE | huggs everyone
Lori | Hi NS...<s> Don;t know you yet..but certainly read
| many of your posts
*The Inspector* | hi NS
*Night Spirit* | hiya Lori and thanks
*Night Spirit* | hiya Inspector
Lori | yw...thank you...lots of information for novices <s>
*Lynn* | <slides between wry and TI and brings her
*Lynn* | chocolate>
*Night Spirit* | <--is really insane just did a set of bondage bears
| pictures
*Lynn* | lol NS
Lori | are they posted already NS?
*The Inspector* | bonding bears?
Lori | <imagining bears>
*Night Spirit* | no Lori not yet Grandpa has them and is working
| magic
*The Inspector* | nice hair wry
Lori | <s>
*Night Spirit* | no Inspector bondage bears
*Lynn* | lol
*Lynn* | huggs Ebe
Lori | Hi Ebe
*Lynn* | hi Lady A
~wrybrat~ | <s> thanks TI..
GrandPaDeSade | hELLO ALL
<Electricblueyes M> | <huggs, Lynn!!!!
*Lynn* | huggs Gpa <s>
Lori | <opens door for Katie >
<Electricblueyes M> | hi Lori!!
Lady Aireanna | good evening all
~wrybrat~ | evening GrPa..
*Lynn* | hugggs Katie, dear <s> smoochies
MoL's Katie J | thank you, Lori
~wrybrat~ | hugggggs Lady A <s>
GrandPaDeSade | Hi Lynn, wry
MoL's Katie J | hugs and smooches, Lynn
~wrybrat~ | hugggggggs Katie!!
GrandPaDeSade | Hi katie
Lori | Hi Grand Pa.DS)
*The Inspector* | hello GPDS
GrandPaDeSade | LTNS
MoL's Katie J | smooches, wrywry
*The Inspector* | huggs Katie
Lori | (((Katie)) I made it !!
MoL's Katie J | Good evening, GrandPa
<Electricblueyes M> | hi katie! <s>
CHRISTOPHER RATHBONE | hi all.
MoL's Katie J | huggs, Inspector
*Lynn* | huggs tina <s>
*Night Spirit* | an announcement which I will be making a few more
| times 6pm pdt and 9pm edt the
*Night Spirit* | old regulars of ch. 10 QVB will gather on undernet
| ICQ tonight so if you wish
*Night Spirit* | to meet them go there after the CO
Lori | Hi Christopher
MoL's Katie J | hiya Christopher
GrandPaDeSade | Hello Lori, inspector
*Night Spirit* | hugs little sis
Lori | NS..what is undernet ICQ?
110453,1700 | hello all
MoL's Katie J | huggg,s NS
~wrybrat~ | IRC
CHRISTOPHER RATHBONE | lori greetings
MoL's Katie J | hello, numbers
110453,1700 | oops
Lori | hi numbers
*Lynn* | tina.. you forgot your name <s>
~wrybrat~ | huggggs tina <s>
Lori | thanks Christopher
*Night Spirit* | not icq---<swats self> IRC undernet
Lori | Hi tina <s>
MoL's Katie J | hey, you like that, NS <G>
<Electricblueyes M> | awwww, don't have IRC
tina | hi Lori
Lori | oh..I see NS <s>
tina | wry <s>
~wrybrat~ | time to get it, Ebe <s>
tina | Lynn
*Lynn* | rehugs tina <s>
GrandPaDeSade | Here, I'll swat you NS <***SWAT***>
CHRISTOPHER RATHBONE | how are yer chuck?
Lori | I downloaded IRC..but have no idea how to use it
| yet :(
~wrybrat~ | tis simple, Lori.. I fyou need help just page me..
*Night Spirit* | ok let us begin other may join in----tonight's
| discussion is self esteem,
*Night Spirit* | is it a problem in our lifestyle or not?
Lori | thanks Wry..I will do that one day..but can't
| tonight<s>
<Electricblueyes M> | I tried to download--waited like 45 minutes--ran
<Electricblueyes M> | out of memory at the end!!! :-(
*Night Spirit* | I am a BBW and I feel ok being naked in front of
| others in our lifestyle
Lori | oh..gotta go
Lori | byee
*Night Spirit* | Night Lori
GrandPaDeSade | Night lori
~wrybrat~ | you're comfortable in yourself, NS <s>
<Electricblueyes M> | of course, Moses brought my computer down
<Electricblueyes M> | from Sanai with the Tablets!!
~wrybrat~ | and that's very important..
*Night Spirit* | is there a self esteem problem also with sub women
| feeling they aren't models
*Night Spirit* | and sub men feeling I am not good enough?
MoL's Katie J | I was amazed at my first play party ... how
| comfortable everyone seemed with
MoL's Katie J | their bodies.
*Lynn* | I'm an exhibitionist.. I like being seen naked
GrandPaDeSade | NS has her self-esteem problems too, just not that
| one.
<Electricblueyes M> | I'm the only sub guy here all the time--feels
<Electricblueyes M> | lonely <s>
amelia | helloooooooo
*Lynn* | however I have other self image problems
*Night Spirit* | I used not ever be naked went to a play party where
| I was average there some
*Night Spirit* | bigger some smaller, some older some younger---but
| I felt comfortable there
CHRISTOPHER RATHBONE | hi alll
<Electricblueyes M> | hi amelia!
GrandPaDeSade | I don't think we are completely honest with
| ourselves if we don't recognize a
GrandPaDeSade | self-esteem problem in some area.
*Lynn* | I have scars
*Lynn* | surgical scarring
*Night Spirit* | Lynn why do you think you have self esteem problems?
*Lynn* | not so much self esteem, NS....
*Night Spirit* | oh man you should see mine
*Lynn* | I'm pretty outgoing
*Lynn* | and I'm very self assured..
*Night Spirit* | someday we will compare scars
GrandPaDeSade | We have a friend we play with that has surgical
| scars and burn scars, she is
GrandPaDeSade | self-conscious of them too.
*Lynn* | but I feel like people stare at my breasts
<Electricblueyes M> | Lynn--you are just beautiful!!!
*Lynn* | alot
~wrybrat~ | and you're gorgeous, darling.. <s>
amelia | I can sympathsize with you Lynn
*Night Spirit* | Lynn maybe they do because they feel comfortable
| because you show it does not
*Night Spirit* | bother you
GrandPaDeSade | Lynn, maybe they are admiring them
*Lynn* | well.. it does bother me when men talk to my tits
*Lynn* | and not my face
*Night Spirit* | amelia how do you sympathsize?
~wrybrat~ | there will alwys be those, Lynnie..
amelia | My sister has a very rare form of diabetes
~wrybrat~ | men are men.. sadly enough sometimes..
Johnny Law | hello people
tina | becoming active in the scebe has allowed me to
| become more comfortable with
tina | myself ..and wth others.......nothing I like seeing
| more han a submissive
tina | diving in subspace....what a beautiful thing to
| see....regardless of what she
tina | looks like.....IMO
~wrybrat~ | <laffing>
*Lynn* | isnt' that the truth
amelia | she has so many scars and puckers
GrandPaDeSade | Well, that's just men. I like to look at breasts
| too. But try to talk to the
GrandPaDeSade | person to whom they are attached.
tina | scene
<Electricblueyes M> | do men ever have "breast envy?"
*Night Spirit* | Lynn Men always do that, went and saw my ex hubby
| and 16 yr old son they both
*Night Spirit* | were upset cuz somegirl didn't pull her blouse down
| enough
~wrybrat~ | you're one of the good uns, GrPa
*Lynn* | yes, you are, GrPa
*Lynn* | i don't mind the admiration....it's just that my
| mind is
*Lynn* | much more entertaining than my chest
GrandPaDeSade | Thank you, but I have my failings too.
Johnny Law | how is everybody tonite?
*The Inspector* | I'll just talk to your backside Lynn...........cant
| stare at the breasts then
~wrybrat~ | of course you do, Sir.. and that's what makes you a
| wonderful Dom..
GrandPaDeSade | That's different NS, most men would do/say that.
MoL's Katie J | But that also goes to the self esteem issue ... we
| like to think we are more
MoL's Katie J | than just bodies .....
*Night Spirit* | Lynn sometimes I feel if I could just take them off
| let GrPa play with them
*Night Spirit* | then return them
MoL's Katie J | another toy for the Dom <G>
~wrybrat~ | and we are..
*Lynn* | LOL NS.. I completely identify
*Lynn* | yes.... we do..
amelia | LOL
~wrybrat~ | would any Dom that we respect take a sub strictly
| for her body? a brainless
~wrybrat~ | sub?
*Lynn* | I am so much more than just my body
*Lynn* | no, wry....
GrandPaDeSade | But I want the rest of you WITH them NS.
*The Inspector* | I know that Lynn...........
<Electricblueyes M> | But Lynn, you often come into the room and
<Electricblueyes M> | slide your skirt up--why do you enjoy men
<Electricblueyes M> | looking at your legs but not your breasts??
amelia | I wonder at that myself wry
*Night Spirit* | ah good point Katie are subs just a body to play
| with, do Doms REALLY like the
*Night Spirit* | minds of subs--you hardly ever hear a Dom talk
| about the mind he conquers
~wrybrat~ | oh, I disagree, NS
GrandPaDeSade | Yes
lynnette | <slips in quietly>
*Lynn* | lol Ebe.. i don't slide my skirt up... I cross my
| legs..
*Lynn* | it's a switch statement
*Night Spirit* | wry why?
GrandPaDeSade | I do hear doms talk about that
*The Inspector* | <S>@lynnette
*Lynn* | hi twin <S>
<Electricblueyes M> | ohhh!!
~wrybrat~ | because, especially in this medium.. a sub needs to
| be imaginative and creative
~wrybrat~ | and smart!
MoL's Katie J | To a lot of Doms, that's the most important
| submission there is .. that of the
MoL's Katie J | mind.
lynnette | hiya twin <s>
*Night Spirit* | wry that is true
lynnette | <s@TI>
GrandPaDeSade | Agree Katie
*The Inspector* | NS............the mind taht is conquered is the
| most important thing
~wrybrat~ | I agree Kate.. the sync needs to be there..
*Lynn* | if he doesn't stimulate my mind.. he doesn't get my
*Lynn* | body..
~wrybrat~ | or the sex isnt enough..
*Night Spirit* | EBE sorry to pick on you--but as a male submissive
| do you have self image
*Night Spirit* | problems ever?
GrandPaDeSade | That's why you are a challenge to me NS. Try to
| conquor the mind of a SAM
~wrybrat~ | big job, eh, GrPa <laffing>
*Night Spirit* | wry you bet it is
GrandPaDeSade | Yes, it is
GrandPaDeSade | But, that's why it's worth it.
<Electricblueyes M> | I suppose that's a bit of a problem...and I am
<Electricblueyes M> | sensitive to it--and most here have seen my
<Electricblueyes M> | temper in D/s at the Doms...
~wrybrat~ | <g> gotta love it though..
*Night Spirit* | I also look at it this way on line normally first
| thing aksed is how we are
*Night Spirit* | dressed and how we look, like on line does THAT
| really matter?
*The Inspector* | never ask that.............dont care
*Lynn* | well.. you're playing to their fantasy, Ma'am
amelia | apparently it does
*Night Spirit* | EBE a sensative sub is also to me a very good thing
*Lynn* | men are visual creatures
~wrybrat~ | I always apologize when I fly off on a tangent..
| and A has the best answer
~wrybrat~ | ever.. to paraphrase.. he says.. how can I expect
| you to be passionate about
~wrybrat~ | only one thing..
GrandPaDeSade | On line, the ONLY real thing you can depend on is
| trying to read/figure out the
GrandPaDeSade | mind on the other end.
~wrybrat~ | when asked that question I reply.. what does it
| matter.. ?
<Electricblueyes M> | thank you NS...I think..???
*Night Spirit* | ok now the opposite do DOMs have self image
| problems?
*Lynn* | i find this medium the great equalizer
GrandPaDeSade | I agree about men being visual. I like smells also.
*Lynn* | minds soar....bodies don't matter that much
GrandPaDeSade | Yes, we do NS
*Lynn* | oh yes, GrPa...I am very smell oriented
lynnette | i totally agree twin
*Night Spirit* | ok if bodies don't matter---why be self conscience?
amelia | mmmmmmmmm I think men smell yummy!!!!!!!
*Lynn* | I'm not...except the scarring
~wrybrat~ | I can't speak to that one. I've not lived it yet..
MoL's Katie J | it matters to me what I look like .. not what
| anyone else looks like.
*Night Spirit* | GrPa if the DOM is in control why should they be
| self-conscience, and what are
*Night Spirit* | they conscience about?
GrandPaDeSade | I can usually tell when a woman near me is on her
| period. I like the smell.
*Lynn* | yes, Katie.. well said
<Electricblueyes M> | we are on a computer here..I don't see anything
<Electricblueyes M> | wrong with asking a woman what she is
<Electricblueyes M> | wearing--and she can say anything she wants
<Electricblueyes M> | in response..so if she says black leather
<Electricblueyes M> | thong....that says something too, no?
lynnette | nor does it matter what anyone thinks i SHOULD look
| like
GrandPaDeSade | Because we still want to make the submissive happy
| too.
*Lynn* | true, Ebe..it's like a signal then?
~wrybrat~ | lol.. they say that Ebe?
indy slim | Hi new here
lynnette | <ggls @wrywry>
<Electricblueyes M> | LOL...MS has an outfit for every day of the year I
<Electricblueyes M> | think!!!
*Night Spirit* | so if our bodies seem to be ok in our world, we
| don't mind being naked--why are
*Night Spirit* | we self conscience, and if we are--over what?
*Night Spirit* | scars we all have scars
*Night Spirit* | age?
*Night Spirit* | hair?
~wrybrat~ | age is a factor..
lynnette | i worry that i may not meet the expectations of
| someone else
*Night Spirit* | clothes?
*Lynn* | with me...it's not the nakedness.. but perhaps the
*Lynn* | way my body moves when I walk that keeps me
*Lynn* | standing still alot
*Lynn* | lol
GrandPaDeSade | So, smells matter. I want to be perceived as
| desireable to my submissive too.
GrandPaDeSade | So i worry about my image. It's because I want her
| to be pleased also.
MoL's Katie J | I mind being naked in front of anyone other than
| MoL.
~wrybrat~ | Lynnie said something wonderful about a womans
| aging..
*Night Spirit* | wry why is age a factor?
<Electricblueyes M> | exactly, lynette!! (huggs lynnette)
*Lynn* | oh no..what was that, wrt?
*Lynn* | wry too
lynnette | hugssss Ebe <s>
~wrybrat~ | when you were writing about breasts not being perky
| anymore..
*Lynn* | do tell <s>
*Night Spirit* | ah so we are solf conscience because we are scared
| what others think of us--WHY?
paul finnegan | you need me to perke them
amelia | I once had a good relationship going online.
| Hopeing it was going to get
amelia | better. Came to trading pictures and ......boy did
| I get tossed off in a hurry.
amelia | He knew the basics about my looks, so why would he
| have been shocked.
GrandPaDeSade | Age is a factor. At 55, many find me too old.
*Night Spirit* | wry my tits are so damn big due to my weight they
| were NEVER perky--never been
*Night Spirit* | a problem for me
~wrybrat~ | I think that it's much the American image that gets
| us all discombobbled..
*Lynn* | 55 is ripe and rich.. and full of wonderful
*Lynn* | experience..
*Night Spirit* | yes GrPa I am 41 and find you too old <I love you
| honey>
~wrybrat~ | do you know.. I have never heard someone come back
| from a play party and
~wrybrat~ | describe any sub there as anything but gorgeous..
<Electricblueyes M> | discombobbled..<s> great word wry
~wrybrat~ | I've been so impressed by that..
GrandPaDeSade | The American most people want. 25-30, thin and
| tall. None of those are me.
*Night Spirit* | wry so should subs all be a size 3 with perky
| breasts if so has anyone ever
*Night Spirit* | seen this sub?
*Lynn* | not me, Sir ...lol
~wrybrat~ | I don't thnk that they should, love.. I know that
| I'm not.. <laffing>
<Electricblueyes M> | 25-30 GP--I think more like 18-22....
*The Inspector* | see wry ............the subs actual apearance may
| not be such an important factor
GrandPaDeSade | The D/s scene is much more tolerant of body types
| than most people.
~wrybrat~ | I agree, TI.. I'm speaking of the head games that
| we play on ourselves..
GrandPaDeSade | Probably EBE
~wrybrat~ | nor the Dom's appearance..
*Night Spirit* | the play party group I mostly hang with Gemini--all
| couple and age from 30-70
*Night Spirit* | and NONE have size 3 but to me all are beautiful
lynnette | i used to worry more about how i was
| perceived.....then some old frieds on-line
lynnette | got together....and everyone was a plain, average
| person if you just looked at
lynnette | their pictures....but wonderful, fun, exciting and
| sensual friends when you
lynnette | chatted with them on-line
~wrybrat~ | <s> but isnt that something about you being
| beautiful, NS?
*The Inspector* | true twin
~wrybrat~ | MS?
~wrybrat~ | oops.. NS?
*Night Spirit* | wry in some ways perhaps or the fact that they are
| all just like me, if they
*Night Spirit* | are beautiful then so am I
GrandPaDeSade | I think that when you look at the world you tend to
| see your own self-image
GrandPaDeSade | reflected back. If so, people in this scene are
| much more satisfied with their
GrandPaDeSade | appearance than most.
*The Inspector* | beauty is not what you are but who you are
night nurse | beauty is what you project outwardly....
<Electricblueyes M> | should I feel ashamed because I think MS is
<Electricblueyes M> | beautiful???
night nurse | its who you are...
lynnette | well said TI <s>
*Night Spirit* | ok once more announcement the former old time folks
| from channel 10 are meeting
*Night Spirit* | right after this CO on Undernet IRC #qvb
~wrybrat~ | we spoke today that Arcane has worked long and hard
| with folie and I ... to get
~wrybrat~ | us to acknowledge our beauty... and to love
| ourselves.. and if that's so... how
~wrybrat~ | can it not spill over?
*Night Spirit* | EBE of course not
GrandPaDeSade | We have or image problems, but much less than most.
MoL's Katie J | and what about those of us who don't think we are
| beautiful?
~wrybrat~ | but you are, Kate.. we all see it.. <s>
petal | Ahem, Katie, YOU are BEAUTIFUL just as YOU are!
petal | <warm hugs>
lynnette | i've thought you were beautiful from the time i met
| you Katie.....and i've
lynnette | never even seen a pic
*Lynn* | when I look at myself in the mirror I see
*Lynn* | maturity..badges of honor..experience. Yes,,the
*Lynn* | crows feet around my eyes..and the laugh lines do
*Lynn* | bug me....but it's what I have been given. Katie..
| you
*Lynn* | are the loveliest of us all, darling.
*Night Spirit* | ah Katie do they really matter and if so--why?
GrandPaDeSade | When was the last time you heard of someone in this
| scene dying of anerexia
night nurse | EBE MS is beautiful....but even more beautiful
| through your eyes because of
night nurse | your feelings for her...
*Night Spirit* | why do we as human beings strive for approval of
| others?
GrandPaDeSade | Katie. WE think you are
lynnette | latent (or not so latent) insecurities, NS
MoL's Katie J | Thank you all ... but it is self image that we are
| speaking about, yes?
petal | NS because we were given messages as children to
| that
petal | effect.
MoL's Katie J | you are all very kind <s>
*Night Spirit* | Katie trust me seen your picture and I would love
| to cuddle that bod of yours
*Lynn* | yes, Katie
*Night Spirit* | and hear you giggle
~wrybrat~ | it's amazing.. when you feel beautiful.. and you
| love yourself so.. you see the
~wrybrat~ | beauty all around you ... and love everyone (well,
| mostly everyone)
GrandPaDeSade | Yes, and we are trying to help yours katie
*Lynn* | I think it's a learned behavior that the school
| system
*Lynn* | encourages
*Night Spirit* | petal you are correct we are given that picture to
| live up too--and most of us
*Night Spirit* | can not--so why do we do this to oursleves?
*Lynn* | wry...you're completely correct..
petal | Sometimes our self-image is all wrapped up in how we
petal | *think* that others want us to be, look, think and
| feel,
petal | Katie.
<Electricblueyes M> | maybe, NN, but everyone who has seen her
<Electricblueyes M> | knows MS is beautiful, it's no secret...
~wrybrat~ | it's something to think of as we raise our
| children..
amelia | If in real life, you receieve and have received
| negitive feedback as a
amelia | person, how can you help but drag it with you in
| here?
petal | NS, we will stop doing it to ourselves when we come
| to
petal | know and love who we are from the inside out and not
petal | the outside in, IMO.
*Night Spirit* | but we are older smarter and know better--why do we
| feel self conscience still
*Night Spirit* | even though others accept us as beautiful?
lynnette | agreed petal
~wrybrat~ | well said, petal..
GrandPaDeSade | As a hypnotherapist, you couldn't be more right
| petal
*Lynn* | yes petal
*Night Spirit* | [etal I totally agree
night nurse | personally i think its a matter of knowing one;s
| self....knowing who you are....
*Lynn* | welcome LWS <s>
*Night Spirit* | so how do we do that
Lady WolfSpirit | hello Lynn...<smiles>
GrandPaDeSade | Hi there LWS
petal | what we choose to drag along with us, amelia is
| those
petal | things which seem to mirror what we truly believe
| about
petal | ourselves, I think.
~wrybrat~ | isn't it about stopping the head games..
Lady WolfSpirit | hello GrPa...<smiles>
*Lynn* | it all comes down to self worth....when you know
*Lynn* | your worth, you are more tolerant of your
*Lynn* | shortcomings and those of others, I think
lynnette | i think so much is driven into our brains by the
| media when we are young....the
lynnette | "perfect" imagine.....and when we can't live up to
| that, we doubt ourselves
~wrybrat~ | looking in the mirror and seeing the warmth and the
| love and the laughter..
lynnette | hello LWS <s>
GrandPaDeSade | The worst "head games" are the ones we play with
| ourselves.
~wrybrat~ | I agree, GrPa
Lady WolfSpirit | hello lynnette....<S>
*Lynn* | how true, GrPa
~wrybrat~ | and we are our own worst taskmasters..
petal | I guess I don't look at those parts of myself as
petal | shortcomings, Lynn, but simply parts of who I am
| that I
petal | can embrace cuz without them I would not be whole.
lynnette | but that takes soooooo much self confidence, petal
GrandPaDeSade | No outsider could ever hurt us as badly as we can
| hurt ourselves.
~wrybrat~ | when we settle in.. and stop struggling..we begin
| to look out..
*Night Spirit* | that is true GrPa---OK so we all know we are
| beautiful, we know those in our
*Night Spirit* | lifestyle and our loved ones know we are beautiful,
| so why self esteem problems?
petal | is there such a thing as too much self-confidence,
petal | lynnette or self-love?
night nurse | it takes alot of love lynette...self love has to
| come first before you can
night nurse | really love someone else
petal | very true, wrybrat, very true!
~wrybrat~ | I think that the stuggle is ongoing, NS.. we just
| deal with it everyday.. I
~wrybrat~ | have a touchstone that I carry in a pocket..
*Night Spirit* | sure petal those people who look in the morror
| alot--my brother is that person
GrandPaDeSade | Because or conscious mind may understand that, but
| does our subconscious?
lynnette | no petal....i'm just saying it takes being able to
| love yourself before you can
lynnette | consider flaws a welcome part of your own self image
amelia | Loved ones have never helped with the self image
| problem, only added to it
*Lynn* | huggs twin...you are right on target
petal | but is that not self-agrandizement and not true
petal | self-confidence or self-love, NS?
*Night Spirit* | amelia like my beloved GrPa he always makes me feel
| absolutly gorgeous
*Lynn* | petal..what the hell is that?
*Lynn* | lol
GrandPaDeSade | You are NS
lynnette | <has to get the dictionary for that one petal <ggl>
petal | lol, Lynn <I think I just made it up!>
*Lynn* | I'm an english major... new word for me even <s>
GrandPaDeSade | Heard it before, forgot it's meaning.
*Night Spirit* | I feel my brother having to look ing the mirror to
| admire his perfection has
*Night Spirit* | lower self esteem then I ever will
petal | it has something to do with being or feeling
| grandiose
petal | about oneself, I think if I recall correctly.
night nurse | take for instance right now....not one of you has
| acknowledged my comments or
night nurse | even the fact that i am here
*Lynn* | nothing wrong with being grandiose, petal..
night nurse | should this make me feel inferior not important
<Electricblueyes M> | very true NN
~wrybrat~ | nn.. why do you feel that?
Lady WolfSpirit | i think that is where cyber comes in handy....in
| r/l....first impressions are
Lady WolfSpirit | there...here....we get to know the person before
| most of us meet r/l...so we
Lady WolfSpirit | love the person as a whole...it takes that first
| impression away....does that
Lady WolfSpirit | make sense?
GrandPaDeSade | He needs to reassure himself constantly
*Night Spirit* | Night nurse forgive me, hiya and which comment
night nurse | hell no...
~wrybrat~ | we usually don't hug and greet here..
night nurse | its no my problem
lynnette | i'm sorry nn.....i appreciated your last
| comment.....it supported what i was
lynnette | saying.....i was too busy typing to
| respond....hugssssssss
*Lynn* | nn that is a common thing here.. we are
*Lynn* | encouraged not to greet after it's begun
GrandPaDeSade | To many people NN, sorry
*Lynn* | I do adore you hugs
*Lynn* | <S>
petal | agrandize means to make great or greater......thus
petal | self-agrandizing is making oneself look or feel
| great or
petal | greater than someone else, IMO.
GrandPaDeSade | I feel that way sometimes to, and I imagine others
| have also.
*Night Spirit* | ah NN did make a good point that self love is
| needed first
amelia | yes
petal | self-love can not be limited to our positive or
| wonderful
petal | qualities, but must include all of who we are, IMO.
*Night Spirit* | ok why don't we have self love?
paul finnegan | petal did you choke on the english language
amelia | But I think self love is learned from day one. From
| your parents and friends
petal | thus loving ourselves for our flaws is part of
| self-love, I
petal | think.
GrandPaDeSade | Self-love must be balances with an acceptance of
| ourselves, warts and all.
lynnette | i agree amelia
night nurse | sometimes...i am not saying this to critize or be
| mean...that is not my
night nurse | intent....but when everyone is talking it is easy
| to make others feel like they
night nurse | are not present
lynnette | it took being away from my family to let myself
| love ME
GrandPaDeSade | balanced even
*Lynn* | have you ever noticed how much nicer someone
*Lynn* | who is well groomed handles themselves than
*Lynn* | someone who is NOT well groomed? Your own
*Lynn* | perception of how you appear is very important.
*Night Spirit* | NN I am sorry you are correct, as the host I should
| be more careful of that
GrandPaDeSade | But so is your perception of the other person.
*Lynn* | yes..
paul finnegan | only male here am i not
MoL's Katie J | no, paul, you are not.
*Lynn* | and we can all do alot to encourage a positive
*Lynn* | perception
*Night Spirit* | no paul you are not
<Electricblueyes M> | you are not. Paul
*Night Spirit* | ok lynn--how?
Zardoz | so hello all
GrandPaDeSade | We sometimes superimpose sterotypes on people and
| don't see the real person
GrandPaDeSade | underneath.
petal | I believe we are mirrors of those we connect with in
petal | both cyber and real life, so what we see in others
petal | sometimes is a direct reflection of how we see
| ourselves.
lynnette | i believe being on-line can boost someone's self
| image.....because you are
lynnette | appreciated for how you think, feel and
| communicate.....not how you look in a
lynnette | mirror
petal | Hello Zardoz
*Lynn* | being clean...taking care of our appearance....not
*Lynn* | being sloppy...all projects a self assured image, NS
lynnette | hello Zardoz
*Lynn* | huggs Z <s>
GrandPaDeSade | Right petal
Zardoz | hi petal
Zardoz | hi Lynn and twin lynn
petal | so true, lynnette. i agree!
GrandPaDeSade | aND SOME i KNOW ARE VERY ABRASIVE ONLINE, AND VERY
| NICE IN PERSON.
GrandPaDeSade | Sorry, caps lock.
*Lynn* | showing we care for ourselves...send a distinct
*Lynn* | message to others
lynnette | and i agree with your statement, petal
MoL's Katie J | nice Caps. Granpa
Lady WolfSpirit | lol
GrandPaDeSade | Don't mean to shout
marieM | you talking about me Grandpa
marieM | <S>
amelia | I only know the looks of a few here. But I am drawn
| to words. I see beauty in
amelia | what is written, so the person behind them is
| beautiful to me.
*Night Spirit* | hugs marie
*Lynn* | this doesn't mean we aren't big or small or anything
*Lynn* | like that.. it means we show pride in what we do
*Lynn* | have.
GrandPaDeSade | No marie, no one here.
*Lynn* | hugs marie <S>
petal | I think that goes back to what someone said about we
petal | really can't truly love someone else until we first
| love
petal | ourselves, Lynn.
Lady WolfSpirit | sometimes as we get older....we get to the point in
| our lives where we tend to
Lady WolfSpirit | say...."if people do not like me for who i am....to
| hell with them"....
lynnette | very nicely said, amelia <s>
marieM | just teasing.. <S>
*Lynn* | that's true, Ma'am......that's an attitude thing
GrandPaDeSade | I often feel that way LWS,.]
Lady WolfSpirit | <grins>
Zardoz | that's putting it nicely LWS
petal | LWS, that's part of what I call reaching the age of
petal | maturity!
GrandPaDeSade | I don't have time to cater to other peoples image
| of what I should be like.
*Night Spirit* | but is that also wrong----why do we go out of our
| way to please others
*Night Spirit* | perceptions of who and what we are?
Lady WolfSpirit | lol Zardoz....trying to be nice for a change...<BG>
lynnette | but sometimes LWS, doesn't that attitude cover up
| for someone's poor self image?
amelia | I may say something like that too, but it hurts
| just the same
Lady WolfSpirit | lol petal...you callin me old??...<grins>
Lady WolfSpirit | not at all lynnette...
~wrybrat~ | do we do that, NS?
petal | LOL, LWS, thought never crossed my mind!
Lady WolfSpirit | <winks at petal>
petal | for acceptance, NS, pure and simple acceptance, IMO.
GrandPaDeSade | lynnette, or we are confident enough not to care
| what they think.
*Lynn* | there's a certain grace that comes with being
*Lynn* | comfortable in your own skin...and much of that, if
*Lynn* | not all of it is mental conditioning, IMO
*Night Spirit* | ok here is an example I have alot of tattoos, cuz I
| like them..I go for a job
*Night Spirit* | interview I hide them--why?
petal | to get the job, perhaps, NS.......just a thought!
*Lynn* | good example, NS
night nurse | well i am 42 ....and loving it....i don;t think i
| have gotten older ..just
night nurse | better
MoL's Katie J | because it could interfere with an evaluation of
| your work skills. <G>
Lady WolfSpirit | lynnette...it comes with the realization that i
| know i will never be
Lady WolfSpirit | perfect...i will never have the perfect looks...i
| will never have the perfect
Lady WolfSpirit | body....if others dont like the way i look...oh
| well...
GrandPaDeSade | Cause you want to get the job
Zardoz | all I know is the physical beauty is only skin
| deep........I have seen people
Zardoz | with out thier skin
lynnette | i believe some use their attitude because they are
| confident.....others use it
lynnette | as a mechanism to hide behind
*Night Spirit* | petal if I seek acceptance then why do I say if you
| don't like me to hell with
*Night Spirit* | you--why is there no happy medium
~wrybrat~ | it's not employer acceptable... its nothing to do
| with you, NSS
amelia | I don't try to please others with my self image,
| But I *do* try to say positive
amelia | things in hopes that it will be a boost to the
| other person. Recieving cudos
amelia | from your peers helps measurably
*Night Spirit* | does it wry or am I seek the employer's approval?
paul finnegan | anyone under 25 here tonight
GrandPaDeSade | I am overweight, gray haired, full beard and
| moustache. Many just see BIKER.
GrandPaDeSade | I've never been on a motorcycle.
lynnette | i'm glad LWS....and i'm not using implying
| anything.....simply looking at it
lynnette | from the other side
*Night Spirit* | amelia good point
*Lynn* | you're evening the playing field, the way I see it
| NS
~wrybrat~ | you want the job.. plain and simple and to hell
| with that persons approval.
Lady WolfSpirit | <smiles at lynnette>
petal | Sometimes I can't say "to hell with someone" if they
petal | don't like me, NS. It isn't so black and
| white....there are
petal | shades of grey for me.
GrandPaDeSade | I don't worry what they think. I'm just gonna be me
*Night Spirit* | ok so we know we are good people
Lee | Oh sorry didnīt realise I had entered the boring
| bastards room!!!!
*Night Spirit* | we wash and bathe
*Lynn* | I think it's in my nature to be a pleaser....and I
| think
*Lynn* | that
night nurse | anyway...age ....looks...your hair color...your
| shape....that doesn;t mean i
night nurse | thing.....the most beautiful woman i know ....have
| poor self esteem
*Night Spirit* | we love to be naked and seen
*Lynn* | is what NS was doing
Lady WolfSpirit | <winks at GrPa>...so you look like a Biker dude
| huh??...<perks and winks at
Lady WolfSpirit | Lynn>
GrandPaDeSade | Better go then lee
*Night Spirit* | so why low self-esteem?
*Lynn* | lol LWS
Zardoz | well NS when I was a banker there was a systems guy
| there who was covered with
Zardoz | tattoos
lynnette | i've only had one person every truly dislike me in
| real life.......it was very
lynnette | crushing.....but then i looked at how she treated
| others and realized her
lynnette | opinion didn't matter much to me
~wrybrat~ | someone came up to me the other day.. and said I'd
| have known you anywhere. .
~wrybrat~ | you haven't changed your hairstyle in 20 years..
GrandPaDeSade | LWS, so i've been told, more than once.
~wrybrat~ | <laffing> and he was right.. more often than not I
| have the same ponytail...
Larry | hi all
Lady WolfSpirit | lol GrPa....sorry...inside joke between Lynn and
| i....<grins>
*Lynn* | lol wry.... I get the same thing all the
| time....are you
*Lynn* | Lynn's daughter? laffin
amelia | I fell it may be because we who have a self image
| problem, give and give, and
amelia | don't get the same in return
night nurse | people who don;t love themselves treat others like
| they treat themselves
paul finnegan | anyone here tonight under my age
Zardoz | LOL wry............I've changed my hair styles so
| many times I don't know what
Zardoz | I look like
Lady WolfSpirit | lol Zardoz
*Lynn* | lol
*Night Spirit* | so if we hang in a group we are comfortable with,
| and bath why are we self
*Night Spirit* | conscience?
~wrybrat~ | <ggl> Z.. and you're a boy!!
petal | Self-esteem (or self-love) for me is about knowing
| that I
petal | am both lovable and capable and walking in the world
petal | that way.......others can see this and feel it and
petal | appreciate it or not.......it is essential to my
| well-being.
GrandPaDeSade | Computer programmers get special allowances. they
| are supposed to be eccentric.
GrandPaDeSade | (I was one for a long time.)
*Night Spirit* | NN good point
night nurse | amelia ...but its the giving that makes you who you
| are...
Zardoz | true GrandPa............it was a sight to see him
| in his suit
lynnette | NS.....because we still sit behind a computer
| screen hoping we don't disappoint
lynnette | the person on the other end
amelia | but it hurts to not get it in return nn
lynnette | and i think that ties into what amelia is saying
night nurse | its not what you recieve from others....its the
| giving from the heart that
night nurse | makes you strong
*Lynn* | just what I said earlier, nn
*Night Spirit* | and lynnette even if we NEVER meet them and after
| an hour will never talk to
*Night Spirit* | them again why do we torture ourselves like that
night nurse | but do you always give to get something in return
~wrybrat~ | well said, nn <s>
*Lynn* | you get back what you send out.. tenfold
petal | not always, nn, not always.
Zardoz | mmmmm torture
Zardoz | love that word
*Lynn* | lol
Lady WolfSpirit | lol
GrandPaDeSade | I loved being able to do what I wanted. So now I'm
| a hypnotherapist. People
GrandPaDeSade | still expect me to be eccentric. Success.
lynnette | maybe....for a sub.....it's the deep seeded need to
| please?
amelia | My package has yet to arrive then Lynn
petal | hmmmmmm, could it be some of us just plain love
| torture,
petal | NS? <wink>
lynnette | lol petal
Zardoz | oh god there it is again mmmmmmm
~wrybrat~ | amelia... don't stop waiting for it, darling..
Zardoz | torture
*Lynn* | amelia...put on a smile and say that again...does it
*Lynn* | feel different?
~wrybrat~ | it's there for all of us...
Lady WolfSpirit | <throws a bucket of ice water on Zardoz>...down
| boy...<grins>
*Night Spirit* | ok so how do we feel still self conscience about
| ourselves?
night nurse | i love giving to others....and i never expect
| anything in return...that way
night nurse | when i get something back it is precious...to be
| cherished...
~wrybrat~ | do we, NS?
Zardoz | gee thanks LWS I needed that
GrandPaDeSade | Torture and pain. Some of us need it so badly we
| will do it to ourselves if
GrandPaDeSade | someone else won't
~wrybrat~ | I think that many of us are saying different..
Lady WolfSpirit | <grins>
petal | um, didn't quite understand your question, NS.
*Lynn* | bingo, GrPa
*Lynn* | there you go
amelia | <------searching thru junk drawer for something
| possitive to say
petal | YES, GrPa!
*Lynn* | you just hit the nail on the head
lynnette | i actually feel more self confident here than in
| the real world.....because i
lynnette | know *why* people care for me
night nurse | you are discovering yourself here and now
petal | try the drawer next to it labelled affirmations
| drawer,
petal | amelia!
~wrybrat~ | <smiling at all her metaphysical friends>
night nurse | you are opening out ...searching yourself as you
| speak
*Lynn* | amelia....an exercise for you, dear....
Zardoz | the trick little lynn is to take that attitude into
| the real world
*Night Spirit* | we know we shouldn't be self conscience, we know we
| are good people, we bath
*Night Spirit* | and take care of our hair, we try to be nice--so
| why are we feeling we are not
*Night Spirit* | good enough?
amelia | hummmmmm looking................
~wrybrat~ | you running macro's NS?
lynnette | i do a good job of it most of the time, Zardoz <s>
*Lynn* | next time the phone rigns...answer it with a smile
| on
*Lynn* | your face....trust me on this..ok?
*Night Spirit* | if the world sees us as beautiful--aren't we?
petal | because down deep inside we don't truly believe we
petal | even ARE ENOUGH, NS.
~wrybrat~ | I said.. it sounds like some of us are feeling
| wonderful!'
*Night Spirit* | no wry all from the fingers
MoL's Katie J | bingo, petal, love
night nurse | what standards do we set for ourselves....??
GrandPaDeSade | How does a phone "rigns"?
*Night Spirit* | why--why do we do this to ourselves?
allie | heelo everyone
*Lynn* | rings <S>
petal | hello allie
MoL's Katie J | <sure, listen to the CAPman .. lol>
GrandPaDeSade | Sorry, couldn't resist.
*Lynn* | lol
Lady WolfSpirit | i look worse now than i did 20 years ago...hell...i
| have tons of stretch
Lady WolfSpirit | marks...my tits sag....i have tons of
| wrinkles...and im 50 lbs overweight...but
Lady WolfSpirit | you know...i have more dates now than i did 20
| years ago....it is
Lady WolfSpirit | attitude....of being happy with yourself....
lynnette | lol
petal | cuz it helps support some of the mistaken beliefs we
petal | carry inside, NS.
Zardoz | hi allie
night nurse | i think we do this unconsciously ...because of the
| need to grow
*Lynn* | ^5's LWS
*Night Spirit* | LWS may have hit it right there
lynnette | <smiles@LWS>
*Night Spirit* | all attitude
GrandPaDeSade | I agree, LWS. But society is more accepting of age
| now than 20 years ago too.
Zardoz | mmmmm LWS baby....kiss me quick
allie | hi zardoz
night nurse | the need to discover what hides within us
Lady WolfSpirit | lol Zardoz
Lady WolfSpirit | brat!!!
petal | <thinks she has an *attitude* sometimes too!> <g>
*Lynn* | lol Z
Zardoz | jeeezzzz what did I say
~wrybrat~ | <smiling sweetly> yes, LWS?
*Night Spirit* | we sadly never see ourselves as others see us, we
| see flawds everywhere, we
*Night Spirit* | should say to hell with them I am beautiful
Lady WolfSpirit | lol wry...<S>
night nurse | an attitude is good sometimes petal....it protects
| when we feel the need to be
night nurse | protected
~wrybrat~ | yes, NS
GrandPaDeSade | They just did a survey that showed some people
| actually have more sex after 60
GrandPaDeSade | than before, and enjoy it more.
MoL's Katie J | they have more time.
~wrybrat~ | if D/s has taught me nothing else.. it's taught me
| that.
lynnette | lol Katie
*Night Spirit* | ok everyone now on line say it
Lady WolfSpirit | <smiles contentedly as she waits for her 27 year
| old biker boy to get
Lady WolfSpirit | here....grins at Lynn>
petal | you mean i have to wait for 11 more years, GrPa?????
*Night Spirit* | I am beautiful
*Lynn* | LOL LWS
*Lynn* | I am beautiful.. inside and out
~wrybrat~ | I am beautiful <s>
*Night Spirit* | come on say it I am beautiful
MoL's Katie J | I can't.
petal | I am beautiful inside!
*Lynn* | huggggggs Katie
~wrybrat~ | Arcane makes me say it constantly.. I have it
| macro'd..
*Lynn* | yes you can
lynnette | I am beautiful
GrandPaDeSade | Start early petal
amelia | me either
night nurse | I am beautiful...and loving you all
Zardoz | yes you can nipplesKatieJnipples
~wrybrat~ | cut out the Master is all..
MoL's Katie J | lol, wry
*Night Spirit* | Katie you are beautiful because we know it MOL
| knows it, it is time for you to
*Night Spirit* | know it
Zardoz | <-listening
petal | <g> GrPa, think i will!
~wrybrat~ | but, very seriously.. I do love you all..
GrandPaDeSade | Enjoy yourself today, there may not be a tomorrow.
night nurse | all you have to do is feel the love and caring in
| this room
*Lynn* | I love you, wry <s>
Lady WolfSpirit | <thinks of HUNTER>...very true GrPa....very true
lynnette | and we love you wrywry <s>
night nurse | and how can you help but feel good
*Night Spirit* | amelia you are beautiful all you have to do is
| allow yourself that beauty
~wrybrat~ | this openess and sharing is so inspirational... and
| so healing..
MoL's Katie J | this is the best conference so far, in my opinion
| .. thank you all <hugggggs>
~wrybrat~ | in that nasty old world out there.. we take lumps..
*Lynn* | it surely is.. everyone yakked
lynnette | Katie, i understand if you can't say it....but i
| hope it helps that we *ALL*
lynnette | perceive you as beautiful <s>
Black Knight | <wanders in > so this is where ya'll are hindin
~wrybrat~ | it's so good to come here with friends and feel
| cherished.
petal | <warm gentle hugs, Katie> I can't change your
| image of
petal | yourself only you can. I won't change mine of you
petal | though EVER!!!!!!!!!
Zardoz | yanked?
Larry | its what in your heart that makes you beautiful or
| ugly
*Night Spirit* | ok any last words and damn all your are beautiful
| because you care, your hearts
*Night Spirit* | are open and your are loved
*Lynn* | hugs Larry
lynnette | huggersssss BK <s>
MoL's Katie J | thank you, my friends ... my family of the heart <S>
Black Knight | <hugggsss lynnette>
Larry | hugs Lynn
*Lynn* | hugggs Katie, love
~wrybrat~ | and you too, Ns... you're gorgeous, darling and we
| adore you..
GrandPaDeSade | One of the things I love about this community, is
| that much more of us are
petal | Hello Black Knight
GrandPaDeSade | supportive of one another than the "vanilla" world.
*Lynn* | we do adore you, NS <S> warm huggs
Black Knight | hello petal
Zardoz | mmmmmmm group grope?
Black Knight | <listing to conversation>
*Night Spirit* | I love you all, you folks online have been
| inspiring to me for a very long time
lynnette | thank you NS...<s>....you are lovely <s>
~wrybrat~ | we gotta leave our clothes on?
*Lynn* | I love you too, Bubba
~wrybrat~ | can we just wallow in the cellulite beauty?????
petal | what clothes, lynnette?
*Lynn* | and you too, twin <s>
*Lynn* | heck I do love you all
*Lynn* | laffin
Black Knight | i love everybody at least twice<s>
GrandPaDeSade | Why wry?
Zardoz | <sings> we are the world we are the perverts
lynnette | <said nothing about clothes <ggl>
lynnette | lol Z
GrandPaDeSade | why leave our clothes om
~wrybrat~ | just a joke and a self acknowlegement, GrPa..
*Night Spirit* | I just checked the library and found I forgot to
| post BDSM101, I will tonight
*Night Spirit* | along with this CO
petal | what clothes, wrybrat? <sorry lynnette>
MoL's Katie J | because the kids are up?
night nurse | wry everyone has fat...hell that is what breasts
| are made of
GrandPaDeSade | Just teasing wry
~wrybrat~ | <laffing>
*Night Spirit* | fat or silicon
Zardoz | <perk>breasts
lynnette | and i love you twin <S>
Black Knight | <smiling>such love in here
lynnette | <slow on my reading>
night nurse | just think of the world without fat....
~wrybrat~ | I was waiting, Z <s>
*Lynn* | breasts are just large sweat glands,arent' they
*Lynn* | Katie>? lol
<Electricblueyes M> | damn...I shouldn't have these breasts....
MoL's Katie J | <teehee>
Zardoz | thanks for the mamories
*Lynn* | <won sexual trivia with that answer>
*Lynn* | LMAO Z
~wrybrat~ | someone told me that these things shouldn't turn
| into "love-ins" but I'm very
~wrybrat~ | glad that this one did.. <s>
night nurse | thank you all for ....just being you
GrandPaDeSade | Next time some male says they don't like fat, say
| "oh, you don't like breasts?"
GrandPaDeSade | In most cases they won't know what to say next.
petal | who else could I be, night nurse? <wink>
Black Knight | hi Lynn<laffin> mom
*Lynn* | lol BK..huggs sweet son
Black Knight | <s><laffin>
~wrybrat~ | good CO, Hosties... thank you <s>
night nurse | there you are petal....you have just discovered
| that you are you
night nurse | and that ..that is just fine
*Lynn* | thank you NS, GrPA and Katie...
*Lynn* | well done
Zardoz | what is it over already?
*Lynn* | it's 9.. <s>
~wrybrat~ | <giving the Hosties a standing clap>
GrandPaDeSade | Thank you all. Without you this CO would be nothing.
lynnette | thank you for the wonderful, thought-provoking
| topic, host and hostesses <S>
Black Knight | <great missed another one<pout>
~wrybrat~ | and of course you're right, GrPa <twirling and
| laughing>
*Lynn* | Night all <s>
Zardoz | damn and I didn't even get to say........
*Lynn* | huggs and kisses..
Zardoz | nipples
amelia | only 6pm here and the sun is still up
Larry | thanks all
lynnette | nite twin....hugssss and kissesssss
MoL's Katie J | Thank you all for coming .... this night is one I
| will remember <s>
night nurse | ohh Black Knight...there will be others...
Black Knight | <s>
GrandPaDeSade | Remember, you can find the CO transcripts here
| later this week.
MoL's Katie J | NS >. that undernet thing is where?
Larry | nite lynnette
petal | g'night all who are leaving and hugs!
amelia | Bye all.......
lynnette | nite Larry
night nurse | just get your tush here on time...smiling
Black Knight | <laffin>
lynnette | goodnight everyone <leaving too>
*Night Spirit* | Night all IRC, undernet @qvb
*Night Spirit* | #qvb
*Night Spirit* | <--gone
********** 10/4/98 6:03 PM End logging Silken Ties.