This Freedom &
Responsibility CO was guest hosted by Lady Rapunzel
********** 5/31/98 5:04 PM Begin logging Sub Pub - D/s.
Lady Rapunzel | "Our entire life, with our moral code and our
| precious freedom, consists ultimately in accepting
| ourselves as we are." (Jean
Lady Rapunzel | Anouilh: French dramatist and screen-writer.
| 1910-1987)
Jenni | {{JOY}}
Lady Rapunzel | "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men
| dread it." (George Bernard Shaw: Irish socialist,
| writer, dramatist and critic.
Lady Rapunzel | 1856-1950)
MoL's Katie J | hugggggggs, GrandPa and NS
Lady Rapunzel | "My soul yearns to be able to let somebody else
| take control, to be able to not have to make the
| decisions, to not be concerned
Lady Rapunzel | about what errors I am going to make." (Slave V)
Lady Rapunzel | Whew
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | Goodevening Sir....GPDS
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Huggs Katie
Lady Rapunzel | That's most of them
Lord Excalibur | hello GPDS and NS
*Night Spirit [HOST] | good afternoon all sorry to be late--hugs Katie
Lady Rapunzel | <- hugs GrPa and NS
Lord Excalibur | thank you
JOY | hi ((jenni/katie)))hello grandPa
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | Good evening NS
Lady WolfSpirit | <smiles>..hello GrPa...NS
MoL's Katie J | right on time by my clock <s>
Lady Rapunzel | Katie, are we doing both parts tonight, or just one?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs Lady R, Lady A and Licks Lord E <wink>
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | <s>
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | looking up at LE
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Good evening LA & LE, LR, LW
Jenni | Hello Night Spirit <s>
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | lol
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hiya Jenni
MoL's Katie J | Lady Rap, why dont' you start with part 1, and see
| where it takes us?
Jenni | Hello GrPa
daisy | Greetings all
Lady Rapunzel | K hon
Lord Excalibur | oh NS you devil you will have LA giving me a hard
| time
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | sounds like a lot of L's
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Lots of "L"s today
JOY | hi Night spirit, lady R
Lady Rapunzel | Everyone done licking and groping?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | nope
Eldersign | Evening, GrPa...hugs, sweet NS...Hugs, Katie. :)
*mystic rain* | hello everyone ~~~ <s>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Hi JOY
Anja... | <laughing>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lord E it'll help you keep on your toes
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs Elder
MoL's Katie J | hugggs, Elder <S>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Evening eldersign
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | <S>
JOY | liked pic a lot Lady R
Lady Rapunzel | Here's tonight's topic:
Lord Excalibur | oh so you know LA is taller than me then
*mystic rain* | good evening GrPa Sir, NS
Lady Rapunzel | Some of us, as submissives, seek a Freedom. Some
| people involved in bdsm speak often of freedom, in
| many ways: freedom from fear,
Lady Rapunzel | freedom from guilt, freedom from insecurity. What
| is this thing we call Freedom?
Lady Rapunzel | Can we justify our own aims and desires as
| rational? Do we simply seek freedom from
| responsibility, and can that be classed as
Lady Rapunzel | freedom at all?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Good evening mystic
Lady WolfSpirit | <leans back in chair..sipping coffee>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Once again we have a special CO today's is hosted
| by Lady R <which means I get
*Night Spirit [HOST] | to learn instead of opening my big mouth>
*mystic rain* | evening Elder Sir <s>, Lady R, Katie, LWS <s>,
Lady Rapunzel | Okay... does anyone have any thoughts about any of
| that?
Jenni | {{{rain}}}
Lady Rapunzel | Does anyone not understand it?? <laughs>
*mystic rain* | hello Jenni <s>
*mystic rain* | huggs
Lady Rapunzel | *I* didn't, when I wrote it
*mystic rain* | <raising hand...errr.... me>
Anja... | freedom from responsibility..yes i agree Lady R
*Night Spirit [HOST] | take it slow Lady R--one step at a time
daisy | i think that submitting to Exile allows me a
| freedom from the worries of
daisy | having control
*mystic rain* | still a bit new LadyR
Lady Rapunzel | Do you, Anja? In what way do you think we seek that?
*mystic rain* | <hmmmphh please don't laugh>
Lady Rapunzel | <- ain't laffin, mystic
MoL's Katie J | we dont' laugh at anyone here, mystic
*mystic rain* | <ss>
Lady WolfSpirit | <smiles at rain>
MoL's Katie J | we all have lots to learn from one another.
*mystic rain* | that is why i come here <s>
Anja... | with all of the hassles of daily life...i do not
| want responsibility in the
Anja... | bedroom
daisy | <nodding>
JOY | freedom from certain social norms
Lady Rapunzel | Does anyone else feel that way?
Jenni | yes.
daisy | i do
Eldersign | :notes there isn't a whole lot of freedom available
| to a dom,
Eldersign | unless he is either very comfortable with his
| compliment, or
Eldersign | a bit careless:
*mystic rain* | yes
*Night Spirit [HOST] | so is submission a freedom?
Lady Rapunzel | This bit is about subs, Elder ;)
Erek | Missed the question
daisy | yes
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | lol
Jenni | I believe it is.
Lady Rapunzel | EREK: <about subs> Do we simply seek freedom from
| responsibility, and can that be classed as freedom
| at all?
Anja... | i would say....that becoming submissive...i gain
| the freedom from my control
Anja... | from life
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <psst Erek> Lady R is hosting today :)
Anja... | i have too much control
Lady Rapunzel | Is it just a freedom from control, Anja, or does it
| give you other freedoms too?
Lady Rapunzel | Does anyone else feel that this freedom from
| responsibility also frees them from other things?
Lady WolfSpirit | i dont feel it a freedom from responsibility....
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Or do you seek to turn control over to someone else
| so you have the freedom to
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | relax and enjoy?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | such as Lady R--give us ideas how it does for you
Anja... | mainly...primarily control...but also to explore
| what i wouldn't normally do
Anja... | sexually..gives me the opportunity to enjoy things
| sexually without guilt
Anja... | because i did not "claim" to want them
Lady Rapunzel | Well, as I said in the letter... some feel that it
| frees them from inhibitions, for example.
daisy | releasing control hardly relaxes me G'PA
Lady WolfSpirit | it is still the responsibility of the submissive to
| make sure that the Dominant
Lady WolfSpirit | is pleased.....or happy...
Lady Rapunzel | To be ordered, you lose the choice, and therefore
| lose the need for hesitation.
Erek | Hmmm, I'm not so sure that there is a freedom from
| responsibilities -- a sub has undertaken just a few
| by submitting, no?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Actually, for many, subspace is relaxing.
MoL's Katie J | I'm with Erek and Lady WS
*mystic rain* | releasing control does relax me...and hopefully
| pleases my Dom
Lady Rapunzel | Go on, Erek
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | I agree as well......
Erek | All this depends on the exact dynamic of the
| relationship, but in my view being my sub means
| taking on certain ...
Lady Rapunzel | What responsibilities do we have, as subs?
Erek | responsiblities - not just play or even duties.
slave m | Hello all
Erek | Tho duties are certainly responsibilities
Anja... | who are our hosts tonight?
Lady WolfSpirit | a sub has to have enough responsibility to know
| when the limit has been reached
Lady WolfSpirit | and to let the Dominant know this....it is the
| submissives responsibility to
Lady WolfSpirit | please and serve LR
MoL's Katie J | Welcome to our conference tonight ... topic ..
| Freedom and responsibilities
Lady Rapunzel | And only that, LWS?
*mystic rain* | s @ LWS
Kiwi | Hi everyone
Lady WolfSpirit | <thinking>
Lady Rapunzel | Is that all we have to do?
Erek | LWS - you just stated the next level also
Lady Rapunzel | Katie, what are your responsibilities as MoL's sub?
effy | LWS, the sub does not always know *at that moment*
| that a
effy | limit has been reached, sometimes
Priscella (m-tv) | Hello everyone
slave m | A sub also has the responsibility to please the
| Domme
Lady Rapunzel | <smile> Hello, Priscella. Welcome to the Conference.
Lady WolfSpirit | yes effy, i know
MoL's Katie J | ummm ..... Lady Rap, most are not suitable for
| posting onn an open channel
MoL's Katie J | <blush>
Lady Rapunzel | <laffin>
Lady WolfSpirit | lol
wry告lk | <laffing>
Lady Rapunzel | Okay, so we have a responsibility to please
daisy | i agree with effy...i try not to set limits...i am
| exploring those boundaries
Lady Rapunzel | But don't we get pleasure from that too?
Lady Rapunzel | Isn't that *easy*?
Lady Rapunzel | It's like saying "You MUST enjoy sex"
Erek | Katie - just say "service" and try to smile <g>
Lady Rapunzel | Isn't it?
effy | <nods at daisy>
Lady WolfSpirit | the freedom i think is the trust in both.....the
| freedom to be comfortable with
Lady WolfSpirit | the other
*mystic rain* | of course we do Lady
MoL's Katie J | oh, MoL makes me smile a *lot*
slave m | Not always easy because it usually means expanding
| boundries
Anja... | i agree L WolfSpirit
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Some men and women don't enjoy or even like sex, so
| that's not really a given.
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | LR............its the freedom to explore with
| respect.
Lady WolfSpirit | and the freedom to know when its not working
Lady Rapunzel | Okay, so are we agreed that, in sex, we have the
| freedom and the responsibility to both please each
| other and respect each other?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Although I wouldn't expect to find them here.
*mystic rain* | lol GrPa...was just going to say that!
JOY | <s>
Lady Rapunzel | Is that what we are saying?
Lord Excalibur | the sub has the freedom to explore but the
| responsibility to respect her Master
Lord Excalibur | in expanding boundaries
MoL's Katie J | that's a faor statement, Lady Rap
*mystic rain* | yes Lady R....I believe so
daisy | i dont think the Domination is always about sex
MoL's Katie J | fair, even
Lady WolfSpirit | its not daisy
Lord Excalibur | that is true daisy
Erek | In some ways nothing is free, for many Doms their
| subs have to earn the right to submit --- was that
| clear?
Lady Rapunzel | Okay, then let me ask this. Do you all practise
| bdsm as a purely sexual preference, or does it
| affect other sides of your lives too?
daisy | it affects ALL of me
Lady WolfSpirit | yes Erek..<S>
JOY | many other sides
Lady Rapunzel | May I ask what it is that you submit, all of you,
| when you submit to a Dom?
Lord Excalibur | in our case myself and Lady Aireanna it affects all
| aspects of our life
Anja... | hmmm...when i have a good master..it carries over
| into my personal life..as far
Anja... | as my respect..trust..love
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | D/s is a lifestyle and a state of mind
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | It is a part of me, not just sexual.
Lady Rapunzel | What *are* we submitting then?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | to me anyway
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | our love
JOY | power
daisy | i give my many things to Exile...my worries...my
| fears...my inhibitions
Lady Rapunzel | Which is also true of vanilla, isn't it, LA?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | yes of course
Lady WolfSpirit | we are submitting our love, respect, and trust LR
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | but with D/s
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | IS IT???
Lady Rapunzel | So what is it about bdsm that makes us different,
| LA?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | the sex is merely a vehical
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | nothing more
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | to me anyway
Lady Rapunzel | Don't we do that in vanilla too, LWS?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | It is supposed to be true of vanilla, but is it as
| often?
Lady WolfSpirit | not always LR
Erek | Lady R - Again what, or maybe howmuch, of you is
| submitted depends on the individual relationships
| basic dynamic and that can be ...
daisy | i agree
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | its more phycoligical
Erek | anything but simple - or it can be very simple.
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | exactly
Lady Rapunzel | Okay, then what is it that we submit? Is it power?
| A power exchange?
Jenni | I wonder if in D/s...........the trust is more
| necessary
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | thank you Sir.
Jenni | if it isn't there, the relationship will not work.
daisy | yes it is Jenni
*mystic rain* | i am more Domme in my everyday life....wants to be
| sub when it comes to sex <s>
Lady WolfSpirit | very true Jenni
Jenni | In vanilla..........many times the trust is not
| there.......and
Jenni | yet people plod on year after year after year
Lady WolfSpirit | lol rain
Lady Rapunzel | Yes, agreed, we need to trust in order to submit..
| I am trying to find out *what* we are submitting
*mystic rain* | s@ LWS
Anja... | Lady R...you talk of vanilla..but does it make a
| difference?
*mystic rain* | is true!
Lady Rapunzel | I don't know, Anja.. does it?
Lady WolfSpirit | we are submitting ourselves LR
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | I am submitting my love
Lady WolfSpirit | heart, body, and soul
Anja... | where do draw a line?..the only line is in sex....
Lady Rapunzel | If we put such emphasis on trust and respect, what
| are we submitting that requires that?
Lady Rapunzel | What *more* are we submitting than we would in a
| vanilla relationship?
daisy | my entire being
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Your health can be at stake in BDSM. That's trust.
Erek | I asked kisa 2 final questions before I accepted
| her submission -
*mystic rain* | our bodies, minds
MoL's Katie J | I entrust MoL with my soul ... no man has had that
| before.
daisy | <nod @ KJ>
Lady Rapunzel | <listening to Erek>
Lady WolfSpirit | <smiles at Katie>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I agree katie
Erek | 1st If this relationship only involved D/s
| activities, no love, but possibly affection - would
| it be enough?
Lady WolfSpirit | <-hopes one day she will find a Master to give her
| soul to...
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | True of me and NS too
effy | no
daisy | i find it very hard to submit with no love
*mystic rain* | <soft smile> huggs LWS
Lady Rapunzel | Okay, let me throw this one in. Do we agree that,
| in a D/s relationship, the Dom has final say in
| everything (although he may
Lady Rapunzel | consider the subs needs and wants as much as
| possible)?
Erek | 2nd - If love is part of the equation, would it be
| eb=nough if there were no overt BDSM physical
| activities?
Anja... | how can one submit without love..then it is only sex
chris | anja, u gonna reply?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | I am submitting my love, trust and total spirit for
| the betterment of my
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | physical and mental state of mind
NICE | can anyone help me
MoL's Katie J | very good questions, Erek <smile>
Lady Rapunzel | Hello, NICE... welcome to the conference <smile>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | NS asked me if I could still whip her and torture
| her if I loved her. I said
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | even more so.
Erek | Anja - many bottoms do it all the time - submit on
| a very limited basis with no love interest
NICE | iya Lady
Lady Rapunzel | We are talking about Freedom and Responsibility,
| NICE
Lady WolfSpirit | <smiles at GrPa>
Lady Rapunzel | LA.. you spoke of betterment
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | The dom does not have the final say if you are
| playing with safewords.
daisy | well Lady Rap...he cannot control my emotions
Lady Rapunzel | Do we all feel that we submit in order to better
| ourselves?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | absolutely
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | I do
wry告lk | I feel that way.
Anja... | Erek..I can only speak for myself
*mystic rain* | yes i believe so
Lady WolfSpirit | i submit to find peace
Master Tiggs | if a dom truley loves is it true to say that he has
| a final say
daisy | the key word there Erek was *limited*
Lady Rapunzel | Why would we feel that we need to give
| power/control over to someone else in order to
| better ourselves?
Vic | Hey
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | Since the moment I became slave to LE.........
Master Tiggs | i wouls say not...not realy...his heart is in
| control
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | I am free............and at peace with my life
Erek | Anja - understood, but equally you should make a
| generalization based only on how you feel, too many
| others are different <s>
wry告lk | to stretch.. to grow..
Jenni | I submit because there is no other choice to fill
| the void
*Night Spirit [HOST] | final say depends on the relationship and how you
| make it--like all
*Night Spirit [HOST] | relationships it is what you design it to be
Master Tiggs | he doesnt realy have a free choise..he is
| constrained by his love
Erek | shoul make = should not make
Erek | sorry
Lady Rapunzel | Why would we need another person in order to grow,
| silk?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Also by the health of the partner.
Anja... | I totally agree Night Spirit
Lady WolfSpirit | LR, i would love to stay for the rest of the con,
| but i have to
Lady WolfSpirit | leave....<S>....take care everyone
Lady Rapunzel | <smile> Take care, LWS
daisy | he helps me discover what i am afraid to find on my
| own Lady rap
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | goodnight LWS
JOY | bye LWS
*mystic rain* | nite LWS...take care
Master Tiggs | ummm..at least tellme im worong
wry告lk | we become comfortable within our selves.. within
| our spaces..
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Night LWS
Lord Excalibur | bye LAdy Wof
Anja... | Our relationships are individual ones..what we make
| them to be....all different.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Night LWS
Jenni | bye LWS
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | absolutely Jenni
JOY | i agree anja
Lady Rapunzel | NS.. Katie... do you feel that you submit in order
| to grow?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | how GrandPa and I have our relationship is for us
| to make, others might see it
*Night Spirit [HOST] | as stupid, lame, perfect or I wish but in
| reality--no way
Lady Rapunzel | and silk... what space do you have? Can you define
| it?
Erek | I don't know about final say, word or whatever - I
| do feel I have the final responsibilty as, for us,
| it is my job to
Erek | make the decisions
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I submit because I want to
Lady Rapunzel | What makes you feel you have the tools to make
| those decisions correctly, Erek?
wry告lk | I'm sorry, Rap, do you mean before submission or
| now..?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | pure and simple, it gives me pleasure, I am happy
| and having fun
Lady Rapunzel | Now, silk
Lord Excalibur | I agree with that Erek
Lady Rapunzel | May I ask, NS.. .did you ever wonder *why* it makes
| you happy?
Erek | I solicit kisa's imput, but in the end I make the
| decision and must stand or fall on that.
MoL's Katie J | I have grown stronger through my submission ... we
| are a part of each other ..
MoL's Katie J | and our strength has melded into something with a
| power beyond each of us.
Lord Excalibur | so very true Katie
Jenni | I am wondering that............big time!
*mystic rain* | s@ Katie
*mystic rain* | well said <s>
wry告lk | it's rather a personal subject, Rap.
Anja... | agree Katie
*mystic rain* | i hope to find that Katie <s>
Lady Rapunzel | Let me throw a quote in here: "Freedom is the
| greatest fruit of self-sufficiency." (Epicurus:
| Greek philosopher and teacher.
Lady Rapunzel | 341-270 BC)
Lady Rapunzel | What do we think about that?
wry告lk | we are free to live D/s
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R--in life as all things you experiment--I
| adore tattoos, don not know
*Night Spirit [HOST] | why, I love purple same thing not sure why, I love
| GrPa..sometimes I know
*Night Spirit [HOST] | others I don't--I am as I am love vampyres, theatre
| and SM (is a switch) it is
*Night Spirit [HOST] | what I am
Lady Rapunzel | True, silk
Lady Rapunzel | I understand, NS <smile> It's what I am too
Erek | Freedom from want maybe - that is not a good quote
| to use on say a prisoner in a jailcell
Lady Rapunzel | But I wonder...
MoL's Katie J | I think my submission is worth more to my Master
| because I am self sufficient
MoL's Katie J | .. I dont *need* to submit .. I want to.
Lady Rapunzel | how strong I am, to submit decision-making to
| another
*mystic rain* | exactly
Priscella (m-tv) | loving someone more than youself?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | very good Katie J
wry告lk | well said, Kate.
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | well done
Master Tiggs | <SS>@Katie
*Night Spirit [HOST] | that's it Katie..means more cuz I want to
Lady Rapunzel | Why would you want someone else to have a
| decision-making place in *your* life, Katie?
Master Tiggs | i have taught my slave to be momre assertive in
| real life
Jenni | I agree Katie...........it is a gift we choose to
| give.
Lady Rapunzel | Why would any of us want that?
Erek | OTOH - I prefer a real person, with a fully
| developed pwersonality and capabilities of their
| own, who chooses to submit ---
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Priscella :) in some ways..then again I love my
| sons more then anything--and no
*Night Spirit [HOST] | way in hell I would submit to them <wg>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Submission is more valuable the less it is
| necessary. If you are
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | self-suficient. You have made a choice to give that
| gift to your dom, as NS has
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | to me.
Lady Rapunzel | Isn't that just because of your pride, Erek?
Master Tiggs | the gift of submission is only valuable if it is
| given in love.......as
Master Tiggs | aconsious gift
wry告lk | the ability to lay it all down with my briefcase
| when I walk through the door
wry告lk | at night is.. marvelous.
Anja... | submitting is a gift we choose freely
Lady Rapunzel | Don't Doms prefer strong subs because of the kudos?
Erek | A doormat is not my ideal, and if it were I could
| get satisfaction from the rubber bloup dolly from
| the shop
wry告lk | then to just be..
*mystic rain* | s@ wry
MoL's Katie J | We are both strong people, but as I said earlier,
| together we are more powerful
MoL's Katie J | ... and I trust and respect his ability to choose
| the best for us.
Lady Rapunzel | A freedom from responsibility, silk?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | no Lady R--there are some Doms who love robots
Master Tiggs | i dont want a tape recording of yes master
*Night Spirit [HOST] | there are some into furniture
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Agree Tiggs
Erek | Or a robot Tiggs
effy | In the beginning - I thought that by finding a
| Dom, I would
effy | find someone stronger than myself to defer to...
*Night Spirit [HOST] | When I dom I perfer them alive and kicking and
| happy to be there
Lady Rapunzel | But surely... for a Dom... it's a lot more kudos if
| you can see someone strong kneeling before you..
| doesn't it just give you a
Lady Rapunzel | sense of your own greater strength?
wry告lk | not exactly responsibility.. not in this
| relationship.. perhaps more just a
wry告lk | space to relax and *be* --
MoL's Katie J | and what now, effy?
Erek | effy - I think we all find strenghts that
| compliment our own
Lord Excalibur | LA is strong in body and mind, so when I control
| her it gives her more and me
Lord Excalibur | also
Master Tiggs | a slave wo is naturaly asertive but submit to me
| only is far more valuable than
Master Tiggs | some one who will do what any one tellls them
Lady Rapunzel | Then what do you think it is freedom from, silk?
effy | now, it's much more of a kindred that you can be
| yourself
effy | with, to explore and not be embarrassed that this
| is how you
effy | are
Lady Rapunzel | In what way valuable, Tiggs?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | thank you Master.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | As a dom, I prefer to have something to do. I it's
| a doormat, obnce I've wiped
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | my shoes, I'm done. A challange is much better.
| (How's that picture?)
Lord Excalibur | <s> @ LA
Master Tiggs | that is a special gift given to me only
*Night Spirit [HOST] | not to me Lady R, there is no strength in just
| submitting....I perfer someone
*Night Spirit [HOST] | kneeling who wants to kneel---pure and
| simple.....as to me I kneel before GrPa
*Night Spirit [HOST] | cuz I want to
wry告lk | perhaps not *from* anything .. more a freedom *to*
| something..
Lady Rapunzel | Good, GrPa ;)
Master Tiggs | vauable as in the gift of love
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | absolutely
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yes honey and boy am I a challenge
MoL's Katie J | One of the things that attracted me to MoL was that
| he wanted me to be *me*
MoL's Katie J | ...... he didn't want me to become something else,
| or mold me into some *ideal*
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | No lady R, not my strength, her respect for me.
Erek | Yes, if submission is a gift, it should be a worthy
| gift - which causes the Dom to value it ---
| convoluted there
Anja... | freedom to be yourself
Jenni | Katie...I *hear* you.
Lady Rapunzel | A freedom to be yourself, silk.. but what is it
| that stops you from doing that without your Master?
MoL's Katie J | he wants what only I can give to him .. so I have
| the freedome to be myself ..
MoL's Katie J | and stronger in that way.
Lady Rapunzel | What is it that stops us from being ourselves alone?
*mystic rain* | <damn phone....now i have to scroll>
Anja... | freedom to explore...
Lady Rapunzel | Freedom from *what*, Anja?
Anja... | freedom of no judgements
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | looking up at LE......
wry告lk | nothing.. nothing at all.. his Dominance has made
| me see me more clearly.. and
wry告lk | helped me move into that beauty.
MoL's Katie J | He has taught me much about myself.
MoL's Katie J | we are on the same page, wry <smile.
wry告lk | sync Kate <s>
Lady Rapunzel | Okay. So if these Doms are teaching us, not freeing
| us from anything but *to* something....
*mystic rain* | ohh...agrees with NS
effy | LR -- I can say something about that.. I have a
| vanilla SO right
effy | now and am trying diligently to corrupt him... I
| never really
effy | realized how hung up *I* used to be until I began
| trying to
effy | help him open up :)
Lady Rapunzel | what gives them the right? What qualifications do
| they have?
max | max here whats up
MoL's Katie J | I gave him the right when I chose to submit
Anja... | respect...love..trust...honesty
Lady Rapunzel | effy.... you used to be hung up? Then you have
| found a freedom from that, right?
JOY | A Dom earns a sub's submission
Erek | Lady R - Good question, but the answer could take a
| week
wry告lk | we give them the right.. more and more as we see
| where the relationship is
wry告lk | taking us..
Lady Rapunzel | So.. wait... are we saying that *subs* are in
| control?
JOY | yes
wry告lk | of course we are..
*mystic rain* | lol....possibly
Anja... | <s>
Lady Rapunzel | Does everyone agree with that?
Erek | Oh Lord, that argument again <g>
Jenni | she has the choice to press in or to run the other
| way
*mystic rain* | in a way...yes i believe we are
wry告lk | <laffing> Erek..
*mystic rain* | lol Erek
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | lol
Lady Rapunzel | Erek? What do you think?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | good Sir
effy | yup -- I am me.. and i have the right to be me,
| regardless... I
effy | am free now from suffereing from what others think.
Lord Excalibur | it crops up so often dosen't it Erek
JOY | the sub is in control of what we do the Dom is in
| control of when we do it
Anja... | that is a very tricky question Lady R
Lady Rapunzel | Speak up, Doms!
Lady Rapunzel | <laughing>
Lady Rapunzel | You all went quiet!
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | A dom MUST earn submission. If you'd give it to
| anyone, what is it worth?
MoL's Katie J | crops up?
MoL's Katie J | love the word play Lord E
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | <s>
*mystic rain* | s@ GrPa
effy | both parties have the right to stop the
| relationship at any time.
Lord Excalibur | <s> @ Katie
*mystic rain* | nothing Sir
Lady Rapunzel | So if you, as a Dom, earn submission....
Erek | In terms of "is there to be a relationship, or will
| this continue, BOTH have some control --- once you
| are down to the scene, then
Lady Rapunzel | we give it...
Lord Excalibur | I agree with that GPDS
Lady Rapunzel | so we are in control?
Anja... | we hand over control...
MoL's Katie J | within predetermined boundaries, the Dom is in
| control.
Erek | only the Dom has the control, tho any good one
| listens and works to make it all good, prior I
| guess that
*mystic rain* | somewhat Lady....we choose to be submissive
Erek | the answer is YES
Lord Excalibur | in so much as to Dominate we need someone to be
| submissive
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | the sub/slave has control to make
| decissions..........
Anja... | and trust that our Dom knows when too far is TOO FAR
Erek | During it's NO
Lady Rapunzel | "Freedom is the will to be responsible to
| ourselves." (Friedrich Nietzsche: German
| philosopher, critic and poet. 1844-1900) Can we
Lady Rapunzel | argue with Nietzsche, or does he prove out point?
*mystic rain* | and we choose to let our Dom take control
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | she/he has a mind
Lady Rapunzel | our point
wry告lk | but it's our submission that makes them powerful..
| the energy flowing bacl and
wry告lk | forth that makes the whole thing work..
*mystic rain* | yes wry....
Lord Excalibur | very true wry
Erek | Control is given, so they must have it up to that
| point, Yes?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Each is in control at certain times. Neither is in
| control all the time. It is
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | a symbiotic partnership.
Lord Excalibur | I feed from LA as much as she feeds from me
Lady Rapunzel | "[Submission is] also a way of exploring what your
| power is. You know, the more power you give away,
| the more power you must have!
Lady Rapunzel | You can't give away what you don't have." (M.
| Cybele)
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | perfect GPDS
*mystic rain* | agrees with GrPa
Lady Rapunzel | How about that?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | brillant.
wry告lk | that's wonderful..
Lady Rapunzel | Do we give away, and thus realise what we have to
| give?
*mystic rain* | excellent
Anja... | totally agree with quote
Erek | A partnership for sure
wry告lk | yes and YES, Rap..
Lady Rapunzel | Then what about Nietzsche?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | lol
Lady Rapunzel | "Freedom is the will to be responsible to
| ourselves." (Friedrich Nietzsche: German
| philosopher, critic and poet. 1844-1900)
Erek | Fuck Nietzsche <g>
wry告lk | and then we continue to find more ..
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | LOL
Lady Rapunzel | Really, Erek? Or can we agree with him too?
Erek | Sorry - but this is about us, not someone long dead
MoL's Katie J | he's not my Master, so I'll pass.
wry告lk | <ggl> Kate..
Lord Excalibur | applaudes Erek
Erek | and each different relationship, partnership
| changes the feel, the texture the will, the flow
| and ebbb
wry告lk | he surely was vanilla anyway..
Anja... | <laughing>
Jenni | yes, instead of following whatever political line
| you
Jenni | happened to grow up with
Lady Rapunzel | "Our entire life, with our moral code and our
| precious freedom, consists ultimately in accepting
| ourselves as we are." (Jean
Lady Rapunzel | Anouilh: French dramatist and screen-writer.
| 1910-1987)
Lady Rapunzel | Anouilh isn't long dea
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Agree Erek
Lady Rapunzel | dead
fit to be tied | <wondering in..., just in from cleveland... looking
| for tornadoes>
effy | I agree with the very last quote
wry告lk | accepting doesm
effy | me too fit fit
*mystic rain* | huggssss fit ,s>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I don't agree LR
Jenni | {{{{ fit <s> }}}}
Lady Rapunzel | But surely you help NS to love what she really is,
| GrPa?
wry告lk | t doesn't mean staying the same forever.. with
| change there must be growth and
Lady Rapunzel | Don't you?
wry告lk | that doesn't exclude acceptance..
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I might have an inclination to steal. You mean I
| should do it 'cause that's who
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I am?
fit to be tied | <waiving silently to all>
Anja... | life of full of political correctness...in our
| relationships..we have the total
Anja... | freedom to be ourselves without having to "watch
| our backs"....to be judged by
Anja... | the world
Lady Rapunzel | So we are... free, Anja?
effy | no GRPA, it means accept that you have the
| inclination, then
effy | use it how you best see fit
Anja... | are you Lady R?
wry告lk | I think that we're trying to be free, Rap..
Lynn | I'm late.. apologies to Lady R
Lady Rapunzel | No, I am not
effy | perhaps by deterring others
Lady Rapunzel | <smile> Lynn
JOY | another part of freedom is the consequences of our
| actions
Uncle Chick | Is anyone here from Baltimore, Maryland?
skyeblue | lady arieanna is so sexy....
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Ok, effy, I can accept your intpretation.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R who and what I am was created long before
| GrPa---we are now growing
*Night Spirit [HOST] | together--to reach OUR goal not his and not mine
| but ours
Erek | Joy - that means taking responsibility
Lady Rapunzel | <smile> NS
wry告lk | <s> NS
*mystic rain* | s@ NS
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | looking up at LE
effy | <s> GrPa
JOY | yes
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | GOOD NS!!!!!
*Night Spirit [HOST] | thanks love
Lady Rapunzel | So if we don't give over responsibility.... yet we
| let the Dom make decisions for us.. what *are* we
| giving over?
fit to be tied | control
Lady Rapunzel | Why, fit?
Lady Rapunzel | Why would you do that?
fit to be tied | freedom
wry告lk | it feels so good.. <s>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | The dom is only (in most cases) making the
| decisions you are willing to let
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | him/her make for you.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R I told him things about me...1 no hitting my
| face, 2 I am diabetic 3.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | My kids are important 4 I like safewords, 5 I can
| leave anytime--is that cool
*Night Spirit [HOST] | it is..good Merry X-Mas I am yours
Erek | good wry - GMTA
Jenni | our wills, access to our minds, hearts, emotions
Lady Rapunzel | Freedom from what, fit?
effy | isn''t more like giving the reins of exploration to
| the Dom?
effy | the ultimate responsibility of the actual journey
| is up to the
effy | sub, the Dom can only direct the journey, and it''s
| MUCH
effy | more than sex
Anja... | i give my love...my love that i will do whatever
| they want....to please them
*Night Spirit [HOST] | He makes the decisions although he asks my input
| often
JOY | to be free of the responsibility/consequences
Lady Rapunzel | So we are in control, GrPa?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | as it should be NS
fit to be tied | freedom from my fears and insecurities for me
Lady Rapunzel | Why can't you face them alone, fit?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | As I said LR, Neither is always in control. It
| varies.
Lady Rapunzel | Isn;t that a weakness?
fit to be tied | i can... i do not want to
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Situation dependent.
MoL's Katie J | Lady Rap, GrandPa said earlier the control doesn't
| rest one place all the time.
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | weakness!!!
*mystic rain* | i feel you NEED to face them alone
spicee | do we *have* to face them alone, Lady Rap?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | are we Lady R--or is it both in control guiding the
| relationship together
Erek&KisaE | <Kisa> It better be more than just sex, then we
| aren't exploring mcuh of the dynamic
Lord Excalibur | eveyone needs someone Lady R
Lady Rapunzel | But we agree, LE, that this type of relationship is
| more intense
*mystic rain* | makes you a stronger person...
Lady Rapunzel | Why would we need someone *more*?
Anja... | something Lord...not someone
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <hugs Kisa> as always lovely to see you :)
effy | LRap -- i think it is just more *honest*
Lady Rapunzel | About what, effy?
Lord Excalibur | true Anja
Lord Excalibur | yes LAdy R of course
Anja... | i could never have submitted if i did not who i was
| first
Lady Rapunzel | What is it about us that makes us need someone
| *more* than most, and in more ways?
effy | about everything Rap -- there are many things that
| I would not
effy | dare to tell a vanilla partner --
Erek&KisaE | <kisa> Just back from the fabric store --- I may
| have been told to go (or not <g>) but the
| responsibility to choose was all mine.
effy | or *be* with a vanilla partner
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I know more about and trust NS more in the three
| years I have known her than my
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | ex-wife in a thirty pluss year vanilla marriage.
*mystic rain* | i need no one More....i WANT them more
Lynn | <has not submitted yet..for just this reason LadyR
Lord Excalibur | why do you say more Lady R
Lady Rapunzel | What is the difference between vanilla and D/s,
| effy, in your opinion?
MoL's Katie J | Flavor.
MoL's Katie J | <g>
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | LOL
fit to be tied | <laffin>
spicee | <giggling @ katie>
effy | the openess of thought and communication, the lack
| of the off
effy | the cuff judgements.
Lady Rapunzel | We seem to agree, LE, that this is a more intense
| lifestyle
Anja... | exactly....how do you define "vanilla" Lady R?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | or on the cuff
MoL's Katie J | put those cuffs back on, effy <wink>
spicee | would perk at the cuff comment...but i agree with
| effy
Lady Rapunzel | Can anyone define vanilla for me?
Erek&KisaE | Lock those cuffs
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | lol
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Is effy striping again?
*mystic rain* | boring LadyR <giggle>
wry告lk | "me"? <laffing>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I do not need someone more then others. I just
| have always had a thing for
*Night Spirit [HOST] | feedback. But I am a switch so I have had
| relationships with subs, doms and
*Night Spirit [HOST] | switches.....I do not feel I am that different from
| other women
effy | effy needs a good striping <sigh>
*mystic rain* | <is there...does not want to be anymore!>
Lord Excalibur | yes Lady R it is if you take it to its fullest
| lengths
*Night Spirit [HOST] | anilla--no flavour
Lady Rapunzel | What do you mean, NS?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | anilla=vanilla
Lord Excalibur | <s> @ NS
Kiwi | Lady R. Vanilla is staying within the rules
*Night Spirit [HOST] | no excitment, no taking chances
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | nilla works too.
Lady Rapunzel | Whose rules, Kiwi?
Erek&KisaE | Vanilla has lots of flavor - just not always the
| one I want <s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | not for me Lady A
Lady Rapunzel | You think vanillas don't take chances too, NS?
Kiwi | Society
effy | in the accepted public norms, like being spanked so
| hard it
effy | leaves marks is outside those norms
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | <s>
Lady Rapunzel | Ahhh.. so we fight against the accepted?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R not the kind of chances I desire
Lady Rapunzel | Is it a shock factor thing?
Lady Rapunzel | Do we aim to shock?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | I meant the spelling ..
JeremyJoseph | would any nice ladies like a private chat with me?
spicee | we fight...or we need...against the accepted, Lady
| Rap?
Master Tiggs | no way is it shock
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | vanilla=boring, average, just like everyone and
| everything else. No variety, no
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | excitement, standard roles, etc.
wry告lk | 'nilla's take more chances, imho
Jenni | I don't want to die of boredom!
Erek&KisaE | Rap - not so much accepted or even condoned, many
| folks do NOT enjoy some of what we do
effy | i aim to shock noone -- i just like what i like
wry告lk | no rules, just limits..
Lady Rapunzel | What do you mean, silk?
Anja... | vanilla does not exist in my vocab pertaining to
| sex...
Lady Rapunzel | True, Erek
Erek&KisaE | For them it would be a horrible travisty if D/s
| were the Norm
*Night Spirit [HOST] | for me yep.....how many vanilla men would want a
| tattooed woman--mind you these
*Night Spirit [HOST] | tats were my choice I want them---or piercing or
| women who drink blood
Lady Rapunzel | So.... are we saying that the only difference
| between vanilla and bdsm is the sex side, hence we
| need more trust etc?
Erek&KisaE | Bleech <g>
Kiwi | Lady R. not shock factor, just exploring our
| feelings
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | NS has eight tattoos
Lady Rapunzel | What about emotions? Do we differ from vanilla
| there too?
*mystic rain* | <drink blood???> ohhhh another aspect i am not
| aware of
Erek&KisaE | Lady R - No not just sex
wry告lk | 'nilla more often than not.. just *does* things..
| accepting them for what they
wry告lk | are.. satisfying or not.. I know that there are
| good strong 'nilla's and 'nilla
wry告lk | relationships.. mostly coasting and growing boring
| and the same..
Jenni | yes, Lady R
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Many men wouldn't like that.
Anja... | <--Anja 2 <s>
Lord Excalibur | <shakes head at Lady R
Master Tiggs | d/s is a way of relating that extends beyoond just
| sex
effy | there are basic diffrences, mainly having to do
| with trust and
effy | openness tho
MoL's Katie J | Lady Rap ... not just sex .. much more to it than
| that <and you know it <G>
Lady Rapunzel | Jenni agrees, LE does not
effy | imo anyhow
wry告lk | agreed, effy
Lady Rapunzel | So what is it that makes us different, Katie?
Lord Excalibur | this is not just sex
JeremyJoseph | Id love to talk in private with a woman
spicee | <- is going to speak up here......to me....my
| submission...is not so much the
spicee | sex....as it is the giving of myself to
| another....emotionally and
spicee | physically..in a way that cannot be achieved in a
| vanilla relationship
Lady Rapunzel | Doesn't the trust thing happen *because* of the sex
| factor?
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | NO
*Night Spirit [HOST] | D/s is alot about acceptance....
MoL's Katie J | It's a deeper sort of partnership .....
Lord Excalibur | great spicee
spicee | NO
Kiwi | Yes Spicee
wry告lk | in some ways..
Anja... | total trust and openess...to be ourselves without
| judgement
*mystic rain* | s@ spicee
effy | NO
Master Tiggs | mmyes katie
Jenni | no..........it's inate..........the sex can happen
| because of
Jenni | the trust
Master Tiggs | <SS?
Lord Excalibur | no it does not
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Jeremy, either stay on subject or leave please.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs spicee lovely seeing you sweety
Lady Rapunzel | Are we free from judgement, then? Is that what we
| seek?
MoL's Katie J | Each partner *needs* the other to be themselves.
Erek&KisaE | The intensity of the sensations we seek is a major
| *noticable difference, but it goes beyound that
Lady Rapunzel | Can we agree that we seek to be free from judgement?
spicee | hugs NS and big smooches...great to be here
wry告lk | yes, we're free.. imho
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R better in this lifestyle then in most
Lady Rapunzel | We're all agreed then?
Master Tiggs | thats part of it Rap ...but only part
Lady Rapunzel | Freedom from judgement
MoL's Katie J | Within the relationship, or outside of it, Lady
| Rap??
effy | sex is just sex, call it what you want -- but
| trust... that comes in
effy | the inital talkings and it is so important -- as
| well the
effy | *connection* -- feeling like you belong
Lady Rapunzel | Within, Katie, I think
Jenni | freedom from judgement
Erek&KisaE | I don't care if they judge me - only that they keep
| that judgement to themselves
Lady Rapunzel | So if we agree that we are free from judgement..
| what are we so afraid of being judged on?
Master Tiggs | d/s is actually a pvt thing for me and jaime
Lord Excalibur | wht freedom from judgement we do what we want to
| do, not because we want to be
Lord Excalibur | free from judgement
Kiwi | Most folks here probably started vanilla, think
| about what life changes allowed
Kiwi | you to explore alternative love styles
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I agree Erek
Master Tiggs | we dont let our families know
wry告lk | look at this.. just the alpha of it... "D/s"..
| doesn't that say much?
Erek&KisaE | The only person left to prove anything to is me and
| I'm still learning, but not worried about my
| ability to learn.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | most vanilla men want perfect females---thin, sexy,
| unreal and vain---d/s want
*Night Spirit [HOST] | a partner to fulfill their lives--looks are not
| quite important
Master Tiggs | judgemnt doesnot figure
Lady Rapunzel | Girls? Do we seek freedom from judgement by our
| partner?
MoL's Katie J | There were other Doms I talked with .. who wanted
| me to act *this* way ... or
MoL's Katie J | *that* way .... no freedom from judgement there.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Judging is their right. But they can keep it to
| themselves.
MoL's Katie J | GIRLS? We dont' need no stinking GIRLS
MoL's Katie J | <spit>
Anja... | yes....
Lady Rapunzel | <laffin>
Jenni | yes, Katie.
wry告lk | that's why they weren't right for you, Kate..
Master Tiggs | ture love is never so much about the body as about
| the person
Lady Rapunzel | I was being affectionate!
*mystic rain* | lol katie
*Night Spirit [HOST] | true Katie--how GrPa and I created our relationship
| is what makes us happy
MoL's Katie J | Hmmmmph.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | it was never meant for others to live
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Tiggs I knew I liked you :)
Lady Rapunzel | Okay, so what do you feel, as GrPa's sub, NS? Do
| you feel free?
wry告lk | isn't that a *basic* difference from 'nilla?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I do. My daughter @!, won a radio station contest
| to name the most perverted
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | person she knew by describing me and my lifestyle.
MoL's Katie J | but you cherish each other .. what you are .. is
| judgement a part of that?
Erek&KisaE | girl is a perjorative only if you make it one, just
| like slut is an endearment - at the right time,
| from the right person
*mystic rain* | lol GrPa
JOY | LOL GrandPa
MoL's Katie J | only one person can call me a girl, Erek.
Lady Rapunzel | <- is *not* MoL!
Lady Rapunzel | <laffin>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | free---no more free now then before--I feel I am
| who and what I am--someone I
*Night Spirit [HOST] | created with all the inputs life offers--inc. GrPa
MoL's Katie J | I'm very .... <fluffin hair> ... sensitive about
| it. <G>
Erek&KisaE | Katie - which is perfectly correct - and I wouldn't
| do anything but defend that
spicee | <-- anyone can call me a girl...on the eve of a not
| so welcome birthday :( :( :(
Lady Rapunzel | So......
Erek&KisaE | from both perspectives, yours and MOL's
Anja... | <laugh> Katie
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | My daughter is 21 in case you don't read
| hiroglyphics.
*mystic rain* | b-day spicee????
Lady Rapunzel | what *is* it that we seek from D/s that we cannot
| get from vanilla?
spicee | yah mystie
*Night Spirit [HOST] | spicee tomorrow is GrPa's BD too
Anja... | there you go with vanilla again...
*mystic rain* | hugggssss girlfriend
JOY | variety
Lynn | the total devoted attention, for me anyhow
*mystic rain* | huggssss GrPa Sir <s>
spicee | <deep curtsy> Happy Birthday, GrPa,
| Sir.......<smiling>
Kiwi | Lady R. intimacy
*Night Spirit [HOST] | openness, trust and lust
Lady Rapunzel | You can't cope without that, Lynn?
effy | <sidetracking> looking at the youth scene today --
| many of
effy | our *shocking* publicwear/values are openly used by
| them
Lynn | i have...but I choose to have it now
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Huggs mystic
Lady Rapunzel | If you told a vanilla they were missing all of
| this, do you think they'd agree?
Lynn | nope
Anja... | nope
spicee | no
*mystic rain* | no
Lady Rapunzel | Are they just ignorant, then?
Erek&KisaE | 1- power exchange, 2- greater levels of sensation,
| more intense, 3- commitment, 4- clear
| communication, even if it has to be
Erek&KisaE | ordered
Vic | Howdy all
Lynn | uninformed
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | SPICEE, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU TOO. i WILL BE 55, i
| WON'T ASK YOU.
Kiwi | NO, they would think it weird, ever if it is what
| they want to do.
effy | they couldn't possibly know until they had
| experienced it
*mystic rain* | lol
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Caps lock again.
Lady Rapunzel | <covering ears>
Anja... | they are not willing to explore the dynamics
Erek&KisaE | 5- truth, justice and the ... opps, going too far
| <g>
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | lol
MoL's Katie J | love that CAPS LOCK Grandpa <G>
spicee | <giggling> thank you, GrPa...i will be <gulp> 30
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Sorry all
Lady Rapunzel | So *everyone* could get a lot out of bdsm
| relationships?
MoL's Katie J | best years ahead of you, spicee <s>
wry告lk | <s> Erek
*mystic rain* | d/s is not for everyone.....i feel it is something
| you feel inside you
MoL's Katie J | no, Lady Rap ....
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | 2nd stanza if you please GPDS
JOY | happy Bday spicee
wry告lk | no, not everyone.
Lynn | lol spicee...ya punk!
Lady Rapunzel | What is it, mystic?
effy | c'mon spicee, i will get you thru -- i went 32 this
| last year :)
*Night Spirit [HOST] | they are look at our extreme bad publicity---esp.
| Jerry springer---they see it
*Night Spirit [HOST] | as sick, who on tv ever showed it as reality?
Anja... | agree mystic
*mystic rain* | not sure Lady...
MoL's Katie J | I didnt' *choose* to be submissive .. I am
| submissive .. it's a part of what I
*mystic rain* | still exploring it
MoL's Katie J | am
Kiwi | Lady R.. only those that want it.
spicee | :-P~~~ lynnie
Lady Rapunzel | Can anyone tell me what it is, this part of us?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | spicee 30 is easy--40 is one I didn't like
Lynn | <s>
spicee | i agree, katie.....
*mystic rain* | but i know i enjoy being submissive....i want to
| please
Lady Rapunzel | Do we all have something in common?
*mystic rain* | and i want to have someone take control
Lady Rapunzel | Some trait?
wry告lk | I think that we do..
Lady Rapunzel | What, silk?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | what wry?
*mystic rain* | within my boundaries of course
spicee | I didn't choose to be submissive...in fact...my
| life probably would have been
Erek&KisaE | spicee - relax I just turned 50 --- ya got a few
| good years left <g>
spicee | much easier...without the strong urge...to give
| myself....to serve another in
spicee | every way.....
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | spicee, wait til 50?
Lynn | I think..for me...it's the nurturer in me...
wry告lk | there are very few *true* D/s'ers that aren't
| really birght.. dummies just
wry告lk | don't get it.
spicee | lol...no thanks y'all....30 is baaaaddd enough
Lady Rapunzel | <laffin> silk.. I take that offensively!
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | 55 means I now get more senior discounts. like I
| need the reminder.
Lady Rapunzel | <- dummy
Lynn | I need someone to care for...to devote myself to
*mystic rain* | 40 is no problem either!!!
Kiwi | For me it is the disire to give up some control.
| The thought is comforting.
*mystic rain* | lol GdPa
MoL's Katie J | spicee .. you have 2 choices .. get older, or die
| young.
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | wrapping arm around LE leg and leaning my head
| ....closing my eyes.
wry告lk | opps. bright.. <good example>
Lady Rapunzel | Can't you do that with vanilla, Lynn?
*mystic rain* | exactly ktie
*mystic rain* | katie even
Lynn | no
Lady Rapunzel | Why not, Lynn?
Lord Excalibur | stroking my darlings hair
spicee | lol katie....i'll choose....ummmmm (thinkin here)
| ok ok older i guess
Anja... | Dom relationships require more thought..more
| calculation...better understanding
Anja... | of your partner....even "romantic" <ducking>
Lynn | not with my life the way it is
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <--is 41 hated 40--ok now back to the CO (with a
| reminder June 2 is Marquis
*Night Spirit [HOST] | DeSade BD)
MoL's Katie J | smart choice.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | vannila lynn, any relation to loretta lynn?
Lord Excalibur | I would agree with that Anja
Jay | Lynn devote to me
Lynn | lol nope Grandpa
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | lots of Gemini"s
MoL's Katie J | MoL is the most romantic man I've ever known
Master Tiggs | going now
wry告lk | lol GrPa
Master Tiggs | thanxs
MoL's Katie J | <--- Gemini <g>
Master Tiggs | bye all
*mystic rain* | gemini/cancer here...
Lady Rapunzel | Well, I have no conclusion, but a lot to consider
| <smile>
Anja... | bye tiggs
Lynn | bye MT huggs
*mystic rain* | on the cuspe
Lady Rapunzel | Thanks, everyone
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | me too
spicee | hugs y'all think i'll go as well....
*mystic rain* | nite MT Sir
Jay | <-------Gemini
*mystic rain* | huggss spicee
Jenni | thank you Lady R
MoL's Katie J | Thank you Lady Rap ... great topic!
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | goodnight.
spicee | wish i had been able to attend the whole co.....
Lady Rapunzel | ;) Katie
JOY | bye all have to get kids for school ...thank you
| Lady r
*mystic rain* | great CO!!!1
JOY | R even
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I have dated alot---TOO MUCH in fact, been married
| once..I am no expert, I know
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Yes, thank yoy Lady R
*Night Spirit [HOST] | what I like--it's the old man in the corner
Anja... | bye Joy
Jenni | good night Lady Aireanna <s>
wry告lk | wonderful job, Rap.. thank you.
JOY | and NS
Lynn | i run my own business..and am successful in a
Lynn | man's field....it's not acceptable for me to be
Lynn | submissive here.. I am the man in my house
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | goodnight dear
Lady Rapunzel | Thank *you* all
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | nice to see you
*mystic rain* | i learn so much coming here....i just want to thank
| all that are involved...
*Night Spirit [HOST] | anyone wishing to host a CO please contact GrPa,
| Katie or myself
Lady Aireanna (Busy) | smiling at mystic
*mystic rain* | BTW....GrPa and NS.....went to your website......
Jay | Lynn be mine
Lynn | yes.. thanks Lady R
Anja... | Thanks Lady Rapunzel
Lynn | god Jay..get a life!
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yes rain?
*mystic rain* | woooowwww....many toys.....some of them scared the
| shit out of me!!!
*mystic rain* | lol
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Got to suffer mystic?
Jenni | It was great to be here
*mystic rain* | rofl
spicee | rofl mystie
*Night Spirit [HOST] | rain come visit us and boy can we show them to you
*mystic rain* | <?> GrPa
Lord Excalibur | thank you Lady R, although I do think that you are
| still missing some of the
Lord Excalibur | real deep meanings of D/s
*mystic rain* | errr......
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Suffer with our toys.
effy | <singing... % someday my Dom will come...%>
*mystic rain* | still too new i believe....but maybe one day <s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | rain did it play music when you were there?
spicee | lol effy
*mystic rain* | yes it did
Erek&KisaE | Ya know I'm always mystified at the end of one of
| these CO's about what is "______", that we all seem
| to agree that there is no ...
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I love the title page--palys chains of love
Anja... | will we all have the chance to visit the site?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | effy, come out and see us some time.
Erek&KisaE | one answer, yet we always act as if that's what we
| are looking for.
Lady Rapunzel | LE.. please note... I *hosted*.. I did not make any
| personal comments except one
Erek&KisaE | Does that strike anyone else as odd?
Lady Rapunzel | I simply asked questions
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | NS can we post the site nere?
MoL's Katie J | Lady Rap like to provoke to get commentary
Jenni | You did an excellent job, Lady Rapunzel!
MoL's Katie J | and does one hell of a job at it.
Jenni | <s>
Lord Excalibur | of course Lady R
Lady Rapunzel | <smile> Thanks
*mystic rain* | well... thank you once again..huggssss <s>
Lynn | yes Lady R.. you did <s>
Lord Excalibur | we will see you in Spetember GPDS and NS
*mystic rain* | great job LadyR
Erek&KisaE | Sigh - I guess not
*Night Spirit [HOST] | no GrandPa can post sites in chat not in these chat
| forums
Erek&KisaE | Nice CO
MoL's Katie J | Erek?
MoL's Katie J | why the sigh?
Jenni | Good night, all. <s>
MoL's Katie J | <scrolling>
*mystic rain* | nite Jenni
Lynn | night all <s> see you sistah's in the room later <s>
Lynn | kotc
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | OK Anja, privite chat if you want it.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hope so Lord E and Lady A--did you sign up?
Erek&KisaE | Just asked what must have been too rhetorical a
| question Katie <g>
Anja... | sure...Grandpa...<s>
Lord Excalibur | not yet
Lady Rapunzel | Thanks all.. going back to the room <smile>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | :)
wry告lk | Erek, I don' tthink that we get to the answer here..
Anja... | bye all
Anja... | nite nite
wry告lk | there's not enough time for that.
MoL's Katie J | There is no one answer ..... but talking about our
| personal answers with others
MoL's Katie J | can help us clarify our own.
MoL's Katie J | does that work?
wry告lk | especially with so many differing opinions.
Erek&KisaE | wry - true - but my point is that there usually
| isn't just ONE answer
*Night Spirit [HOST] | not so much an answer as opening up some thoughts
| on it--we all make our own
*Night Spirit [HOST] | answers
wry告lk | I agree..
effy | personally i think being involved in D/s helps me
| beyond
effy | being superficial
Erek&KisaE | Katie - ah-yup
Lord Excalibur | thats it Katie, we all don't know all the answers
| but as a group we can
Lord Excalibur | probably find most of them
MoL's Katie J | or find the ones which fit us best.
wry告lk | and if we can't.. at least we have some good data..
Lord Excalibur | yes of course
*Night Spirit [HOST] | true wry
Lord Excalibur | at the end of the day we are still individuals
Kiwi | bye all
wry告lk | then we get to decide for ourselves..
Lord Excalibur | each requiring something differant
MoL's Katie J | I've learned so much since I started these ... so
| much yet to be learned <s>
wry告lk | <nod> Kate..
Lord Excalibur | we learn every day Katie
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <--taking a break before chat duty Night!
********** 5/31/98 6:09 PM End logging Sub Pub - D/s.