Humiliation

********** 8/9/98  4:58 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
                Lynn | huggs NS <s>
                effy | no, just pissed off that I was *dismissed* when 
                     | trying to
                effy | discuss something
                Aria | Hello Night Spirit
                 cmh | evening all <S>
                effy | hugs NS
                Lynn | in the room, effy?
                Lynn | hi cmh
                effy | yes -- earlier
                Lynn | by whom?
                Aria | effy who dismissed you?
                effy | mostly everyone.
                Aria | hello Katie
                effy | pointedly by one or two
       MoL's Katie J | hugggggs to all
                Lynn | huggggs Kate <s> smoochies
                effy | hugs Katie
       MoL's Katie J | effy, someone dissed you?
                effy | <shutting up>
                Aria | I am so sorry that I wasn't there to help support 
                     | you
       MoL's Katie J | I'll smack 'em
       MoL's Katie J | hugggggs and smooches, Lynn
                Aria | oh please, don't shut up
                Lynn | effy..ignor it.. you know.. assholes.. everyone has
                Lynn | one.. <s> oops.. <ducks>
                Aria | hello meg
                effy | it's just that i have a reputation for never being 
                     | serious...
                effy | so I was dismissed
                effy | fluffhead effy
                Aria | effy you do not have a reputation for nevering 
                     | being serious
       MoL's Katie J | effy .. they have only the importance you give them.
                Lynn | you know.. I never heard that before effy..
                Aria | where do you get this?
                 meg | hi Aria.... and all
        Night Spirit | <--waves to crowd will BRB
                Aria | hello cmh
                Lynn | hugs meggie.. YOU MADE IT!
                Aria | hello Ebe
                Lynn | <vbg>
       MoL's Katie J | welcome meg, good to see you!
                effy | i am just mad I guess... got my buttons pushed.
                Lynn | huggs EBE
                 meg | <propping eyelidds open> yep
   ElectricBlueyes>M | Hi Aria
       MoL's Katie J | I still have some Domme left from the full moon .. 
                     | so let me at 'em <G>
                Lynn | lol
      Lord Excalibur | good evening all
                 zen | hugs and shakes
   ElectricBlueyes>M | Huggs Lynn!!
                Lynn | LOL Katie
       MoL's Katie J | welcome, Ebe
       MoL's Katie J | hiya zen
                Lynn | hi zen
                Lynn | zen???
                Aria | hello Zen
  Zen Whacking Stick | yeh its me
   ElectricBlueyes>M | Thanks Kate--how are ya, hon?? <s>
                Lynn | huggs Sir <s>
       MoL's Katie J | there we go ... Capital Z Zen
      Lord Excalibur | brb
                Aria | hello Lord Excalibur
       MoL's Katie J | doing well, thanks Ebe
                Lynn | were you feeling kinda low, Sir<covers mouth
                Lynn | giggling>
                Aria | <leg bouncing>
                Lynn | hello LE <s>
  Zen Whacking Stick | hello aria...lynn.katie
  Zen Whacking Stick | yeh
                effy | <going to sit in the big wingback>
  Zen Whacking Stick | re's effy
                Lynn | <big hugs for Zen>
       MoL's Katie J | This is our grope feely good greeting time :-)
                Aria | <hoping that she gets through this conference>
  Zen Whacking Stick | smiles......thanks lynn
                effy | <waves to Zen>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <~~~~~Enters the room with a bow, passes a Rose
       !!~Earl Grey~ | ~<~<~{@ to each of the ladies and a beer <~~~~c{_} 
                     | to all
       !!~Earl Grey~ | the guys.........
                Aria | hello Earl Grey
                Lynn | sure thing, you're one of my favorite people Zen
   ElectricBlueyes>M | OUCH, effy!  get off my wingback!  <s>
       MoL's Katie J | Welcome, Earl Grey
                Lynn | huggs EG <s>
              marieM | saying hello again<S>   with the right nick<S>
         StrongHeart | Hello everyone
  Zen Whacking Stick | brb
       !!~Earl Grey~ | Hugggggsgss<s>
                Aria | Hello Strong Heart Sir
       MoL's Katie J | welcome, Strongheart <S>
                Lynn | and thank you for the rose.. <S>
                Aria | hello marieM
       MoL's Katie J | hugggs, marieM
                effy | <bites Ebe> not tonight honey, it's *mine* <sweetest
                effy | deadly smile>
                Lynn | huggs My own Sir <s> smooch
                Aria | no roses please <g>
        Night Spirit | hugs Earl you sexy cup of tea
                Lynn | <moves over>
         StrongHeart | Hello Aria, KJ, and Lynn <s>
       MoL's Katie J | <man o man, effy sounds serious to me>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | ROFL! NS!!!!!!!! Long time no see!!
      Lord Excalibur | right back now, hello all
       MoL's Katie J | good to see you, Lord Ex
         StrongHeart | <settles into the seat..getting comfy>
      Lord Excalibur | hi Katie
                Lynn | <smiles and leans against him...listening>
                Aria | hello Femme
      Lord Excalibur | it might be a bit short in here for a while on e of 
                     | the US server has gone down
                Aria | don't think that I know you
       MoL's Katie J | welcome, Femme :)
       !!~Earl Grey~ | Aria...............sorry, my dear.......for 
                     | you.......  ~<~<~
               Femme | Thank you Mol
   ElectricBlueyes>M | I have a friend with me--this is her first
   ElectricBlueyes>M | time here--hope she will be
   ElectricBlueyes>M | welcome--her name is Brandy
       MoL's Katie J | Tonight's conference is on Humilation
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <psst.......Its katie, Femme>
              marieM | welcome Brandy
               Femme | okay Katie
                effy | welcome Brandy
        Night Spirit | Earl I do love a hot man <s>
       MoL's Katie J | oh, I answer to almost anything <G>
                Aria | thanks Earl Grey, I will take the thorns, perhaps 
                     | tomorrow I will feel more
                Aria | like using them <G>
               Femme | I'll keep it between you and me Katie.
                Lynn | big hugs marie <s>
            ~wrywry~ | evening everyone <s>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | LOL, NS..............How you keeping?
              Brandy | hi
       MoL's Katie J | thanks, Femme <w>
       MoL's Katie J | huggggs, wrywrywry
       MoL's Katie J | welcome, G
              marieM | <s> thanks Lynn
       !!~Earl Grey~ | Fair enough, aria<smiles>
       MoL's Katie J | hugggggs, nikki
   ElectricBlueyes>M | <dragging her through door>  LOL
                Leda | Hiyas, everyone.
        Night Spirit | Earl I be keeping well but tired
       MoL's Katie J | huggggggggs, Leda
             ~nikki~ | Hiya everyone!   <smiling and waving>
                Aria | hello there... G~~matter
                Lynn | hi Leda
                ~G~m | goodevening
                Aria | hello nikki
            ~wrywry~ | dumb question.. where do I have messages waiting?
                Aria | hello Leda
              Brandy | thankyou effy
  Zen Whacking Stick | <-back.....hellos to all i missed
              marieM | hello nikki
       MoL's Katie J | on the message board, wry
                Lynn | Hi nik <S>
             ~nikki~ | In *welcome* wry
                Lynn | Hi wry <s>
         StrongHeart | Hello Leda, nikki...welcome Brandy
       MoL's Katie J | we've been notching your stick for you, Zen
                Lynn | huggs to all I missed
                Aria | hello wrywry
   ElectricBlueyes>M | <hugs > Brandy <s>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <Grabs ~G~m and pullls her closer>
  Zen Whacking Stick | thanks katie <s>
        Night Spirit | One quick announcement if you are not on my 
                     | maillist for the Sept folsom party
        Night Spirit | and are interested check out the website 
                     | http://www.hypnoinfo.com/folsomparty
             ~nikki~ | (hugs to all)  <---- to save time
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <smiles at her softly><kiss>
         StrongHeart | hiya wry
              Brandy | <hugs elect >
                ~G~m | <giggle> thankyou
       !!~Earl Grey~ | (((((nikki))))))))
              marieM | thanks NS.. <S>
                Aria | hello Brandy
            ~wrywry~ | <laffing> that's pretty kewl..
      Lord Excalibur | oh Ns part two of your mail is corrupted can't open 
                     | it
               Femme | Where is the folsom party Night?
              Brandy | hello Aria
  Zen Whacking Stick | <sits down, waits>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | Shakes, Zen
        Night Spirit | the folsom st party is in San Francisco, sorry 
                     | about the poster for a copy go
        Night Spirit | http://www.folsomstreetfair.com
       MoL's Katie J | welcome, Brandy
              Brandy | <winks at EBE>
  Zen Whacking Stick | re's Earl
       GrandPaDeSade | Hello all
              Brandy | thankyou Mols
               Femme | Okay night
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <s> @Leda and wry   Good idea.........LOL
  Zen Whacking Stick | greets Grandpa and NS
      Lord Excalibur | hi GPDS
                Lynn | hugs Grandpa <s>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | Bloody hell.............GrP!!! Shakes!
         Aria (busy) | greetings GrandPa De Sade
        Night Spirit | ok any more announcements?
       MoL's Katie J | hugs, Grandpa
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Tiggs and jaime are coming in a sec, I think
         Aria (busy) | Just one please
       !!~Earl Grey~ | :-x
        Night Spirit | ok Aria
       !!~Earl Grey~ | ooops<s>?
       MoL's Katie J | Next week marie will host the first Subbie CO .. 
                     | tues day night at 10:30 p edt
       MoL's Katie J | go ahead, Aria
       GrandPaDeSade | Zen, it's been awhile. Hi there LE, Lynn. Earl 
                     | Grey, Katie, and Aris
            ~wrywry~ | oh, that's a good time <s> thanks
       GrandPaDeSade | Aria even. Sorry
         Aria (busy) | would all of you please take a moment to look at 
                     | the file that is in the
         Aria (busy) | library, entitled survey.txt and give me some 
                     | feedback on questions that I
         Aria (busy) | wrote?
        Night Spirit | alright marie :)
       MoL's Katie J | will do, Aria
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <Running my fingers through ~G~m's hair 
                     | idly.............>
            ~wrywry~ | sure thing, Aria <s>
     ~nikki~  (busy) | will do too, Aria   <s>
         Aria (busy) | thanks <G>
   Master Discoverer | hi all
      Lord Excalibur | will do Aria
  Zen Whacking Stick | will do aria
         Aria (busy) | hello Master Discoverer
     ~nikki~  (busy) | HUgs Tiggs & jaime
  miracle discovered | hugggs <S>
       MoL's Katie J | Ok .. 1 more minute for greets and gropes .. then 
                     | we'll roll on with our
       MoL's Katie J | Humiliation <G>
                Lynn | huggs from Rover, MT and Jaime
   Master Discoverer | hugsssssss nikki
  miracle discovered | <giggle> Lynn
       MoL's Katie J | good to see you, MT and jaime
           ~wrybrat~ | lol Lynnie
       GrandPaDeSade | Well, I guess that survey doesn't apply to me, (for 
                     | several reasons).
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Go for it, Katie  <s>
                Lynn | hehehe
         Aria (busy) | hello miracle
   ElectricBlueyes>M | ok then--<hugs> jaime!!! LTNS--Hugs>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | Nik!!
             Dickie® | Hi everyone <winks at ~g~m>
       MoL's Katie J | hiya Dickie :-)
  Zen Whacking Stick | let's do this humilation thing !!!! <chuckle>
  miracle discovered | hello Aria, thanks Katie
                ~G~m | ~~~ hi dickie
       !!~Earl Grey~ | Hi dickie
       MoL's Katie J | NS, sis, you ready to start?
         Aria (busy) | no actually i would like feedback from everyone 
                     | GrandPaDeSade
              Brandy | hugs everyone....
       MoL's Katie J | welcome rose <s>
       GrandPaDeSade | OK, then I will Aria
        Night Spirit | yes Ma'am
                effy | whuffer, Aria? are you doing your dissertation on 
                     | it?
   Master Discoverer | what questionaire ?????//
                rose | hi
       !!~Earl Grey~ | hello rose
                ~G~m | <looking around.....distracted>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | rose!!!!!!!!!11  :-)  <huge hugs>
              Brandy | hi rose
         Aria (busy) | effy, I want to write a book.. but we can talk 
                     | about it later <G> okay?
         Aria (busy) | hello rose
         effy (busy) | k
         Aria (busy) | <shutting up>
              Brandy | lol Aria
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <looks down at ~G~m........By anything in 
                     | particular?>
           ~wrybrat~ | <waiting patiently>
       GrandPaDeSade | Master Discovery Survey.txt in the lib here
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <waiting>
        Night Spirit | ok all if you want to post any messages do so in 
                     | silken ties, and post anything
        Night Spirit | you want (within reason) in the library
                ~G~m | no Master....words for later
             Dickie® | <sitting at the back of the room , just watching>
       MoL's Katie J | Welcome to our D/s conference .. tonight's topic, 
                     | Humiliation
        Night Spirit | now about humilation besides I can't spell it
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <Smiles at ~G~m softly......>
       MoL's Katie J | speeling doesn't cunt.
               tweey | hi
       MoL's Katie J | errr... count.
         Lynn <busy> | LOL
         Aria (busy) | <grinning>
       GrandPaDeSade | But you sure can take it NS
     ~nikki~  (busy) | LMAO  Katie
           ~wrybrat~ | <snicker>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | ROFL, katie
           ~wrybrat~ | I have a suggestion for a rule?
        Night Spirit | Katie <eyes wide>
               tweey | dickie
  Zen Whacking Stick | bbl
         Leda (busy) | A rule, wry? <perk>
       !!~Earl Grey~ | later, Zen
       GrandPaDeSade | And I've seen you dish it out to others NS
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Me too, wry   <sigh>     No cyber-play during CO?
           ~wrybrat~ | yes... I think that we need to start promptly..
               tweey | @>->-----for u dickie
           ~wrybrat~ | that if we are going to hug and hello we should 
                     | come a bit earlyt for that.
           ~wrybrat~ | -t
        Night Spirit | good idea wry
         Aria (busy) | start promptly, and hellos and goodbyes to outside 
                     | of the channel during
         Aria (busy) | conference time....
         Leda (busy) | Yeah, or in sends.
        Night Spirit | now if I may begin
           ~wrybrat~ | can we take a vote, Katie?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | ^5's wry & Aria.....
       MoL's Katie J | I do greet everyone who comes in privately
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <Whispers to ~G~m.......>.......I think you have 
                     | met some
       !!~Earl Grey~ | of these people in chat3<smiles>
       GrandPaDeSade | I think most would be for it wry
           ~wrybrat~ | then are we agreeed?
        Night Spirit | how do you all feel about humiliation
       MoL's Katie J | agreed
     ~nikki~  (busy) | yes
        Night Spirit | we are wry :)
      Lord Excalibur | agreed
           ~wrybrat~ | good <s>
           ~wrybrat~ | let the games begin!  <g>
           Krystelle | hello everyone
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I think it depends on the context of humiliation, 
                     | Katie........
       GrandPaDeSade | OK< who has something to say on the subject?
         Aria (busy) | I think the same thing...
         Lynn <busy> | what kind of humiliation, Katie?
         Lynn <busy> | Not really crazy about verbal humiliation
         Aria (busy) | I have a great deal to say (what a surprise) but I 
                     | think there are two kinds of
         Aria (busy) | humiliation that we can talk about...
         effy (busy) | is it just for the meanness of it -- or as 
                     | training? or just cuz you happen to like
         effy (busy) | it?
           ~wrybrat~ | some aspects of humiliation frighten me..
       GrandPaDeSade | All kinds
       !!~Earl Grey~ | <Listening to the differing views........>
       GrandPaDeSade | Different prople like different kinds
         Aria (busy) | I think there is the humiliation within a scene
       MoL's Katie J | 2 kinds as in public and private?
  Zen Whacking Stick | humilation comes in various forms....as a type of 
                     | training to remind the
  Zen Whacking Stick | slave/sub of her/his place
       GrandPaDeSade | Some like to get it effy
         Aria (busy) | and then there is the humiliation within public view
   savage  immmortal | hello all big hello from new york
      Lord Excalibur | exactly GPDS and differant people see humiliatio in 
                     | differant ways
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Objectification humiliation?   Verbal humiliation?  
                     |  Many things a sub may feel
     ~nikki~  (busy) | humiliating may not be claseed within the broad 
                     | spectrum of D/s as a
     ~nikki~  (busy) | "humiliation scene"
        Night Spirit | humiliation-playful embarrassment or humbling a 
                     | person by teasing them about
        Night Spirit | their sexual desires can be part of erotic control
  Zen Whacking Stick | but also as a scene.....one that is more of a 
                     | mutual turn on i think
         Leda (busy) | Good point, nikki--it's a very subjective thing.
        Night Spirit | the quote I did was from Screw the Roses
         Aria (busy) | yes but are we talking about public or private?
         Aria (busy) | because that matters to me
           ~wrybrat~ | just got that one, MS, love it <s>
        Night Spirit | let's cover public first
           ~wrybrat~ | er.. N
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Noted, NS    Okay......it gets *me* hot.
            JUE-BABY | hi yall
  Zen Whacking Stick | there are things that humilate and things that are 
                     | supposed to humilate but
  Zen Whacking Stick | dont but are used because they are *forbidden* so 
                     | to speak
        Night Spirit | nikki how and why?
               tweey | HI
        Night Spirit | Zen please explain :)
         Aria (busy) | Okay... I HATE public humiliation, no matter what 
                     | kind of humilation it is, but
         Aria (busy) | some things that might be considered humiliating to 
                     | others, i find a turn on...
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Just the act of "who may see"....."what may happen 
                     | next"
      David Arbogast | can i turn you on aria
  Zen Whacking Stick | well........calling your slave a bitch or a whore 
                     | may not actually humilate her
  Zen Whacking Stick | it might turn her on
        Night Spirit | ok Aria examples
         effy (busy) | and me <small voice> I hate verbal humiliation, but 
                     | some other forms... well...
      David Arbogast | try me aria
       !!~Earl Grey~ | I have to saty that I am still unclear in respect 
                     | of an agreed
       !!~Earl Grey~ | definition of humiliation.......Is it possible to 
                     | actaully
       !!~Earl Grey~ | AGREE a definition?
       GrandPaDeSade | Zen, they may be turned on BY being humiliated
         Aria (busy) | <laughing> well Zen starts... but say touching me 
                     | in public... or a consensual
         Aria (busy) | whipping in front of others in the scene... that 
                     | isn't humiliating to me, but
         Aria (busy) | might be to others....
        Night Spirit | David this is a discussion hour not play time--sorry
     ~nikki~  (busy) | me too, effy........verbal humiliation is a no-no 
                     | for me
  Zen Whacking Stick | david this is a forum not a pick up club
  Zen Whacking Stick | that is true too GrPa
         Lynn <busy> | me too, nik and effy
         Lynn <busy> | turns me right off..
  Zen Whacking Stick | like most things...very subjective
         Aria (busy) | no... If i were belittled about being 
                     | unintelligent, that would be humiliating
         Aria (busy) | and not a turn on at all
         Aria (busy) | cause I am not
        Night Spirit | I love being called a BITCH by GrPa during play but 
                     | I do not want someone
            JUE-BABY | jue -baby jacking
        Night Spirit | calling me that while walking to the store
         effy (busy) | agreed, but affectionaately being called your 
                     | Master's slut, that isn't so bad
  Zen Whacking Stick | so, aria...for you. you wnat the humilation to turn 
                     | you on
       !!~Earl Grey~ | Yes......It is, of course, subjective.......but 
                     | what is really
       !!~Earl Grey~ | meant in this context by humiliation?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | .........but.......to be asked to do something that 
                     | I would find VERY
     ~nikki~  (busy) | embarrassing.......<pant, pant>
         Leda (busy) | I like certain types of verbal humiliation--the 
                     | sort that Zen mention makes me
         Leda (busy) | kinda hot <g> which is humiliating in and of itself.
         Leda (busy) | But it's not the same as *belittling*
        Night Spirit | Jue-baby please stick to the subject
  Zen Whacking Stick | agreed Leda
         Aria (busy) | if I was called a whore or a slut, though, even 
                     | though I am not, that would
         Aria (busy) | turn me on in public.... if it was by someone that 
                     | i was in a relationship with
  Zen Whacking Stick | I do not think my slave is a whore
       MoL's Katie J | yes, I agree with you, Leda
            razorman | hi
  Zen Whacking Stick | but in a certain context, she likes to be called 
                     | that, and i like to call her
  Zen Whacking Stick | that
        Night Spirit | ZWS do you get enjoyment out of calling her that, 
                     | or is it she enjoys it so you
        Night Spirit | do it?
  Zen Whacking Stick | both
      Lord Excalibur | as I said earlier Zen everyone has a differant 
                     | conception of humiliation
        Night Spirit | ZWS ever did it in public?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I think it also depends on the mental and emotion 
                     | need/mood of the players too
         Aria (busy) | I think Zen, that I want the humiliation to become 
                     | part of OUR ritual, whatever
         Aria (busy) | the ritual becomes
                rose | hi
         Aria (busy) | does that make sense?
  Zen Whacking Stick | ultimately, D/s should be mutually satisfying
         Aria (busy) | <agreeing with nikki here>
  Zen Whacking Stick | not that particular thing, NS....
              marieM | So is this a area that would be more reserved for 
                     | partners that know each other
              marieM | pretty well
        Night Spirit | I agree ZWS
            razorman | hi rose
         Aria (busy) | yes... marie
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I would like to think so......marie
       James Michael | slips in, and sits in the back.
                rose | hi raz
  Zen Whacking Stick | i am into exhibitionism..which some find humilating 
                     | i guess
         Aria (busy) | <grinning>
        Night Spirit | so mostly name calling is a private thing--what is 
                     | a good public thing--most I
        Night Spirit | know go with no wearing of underwear and wear a 
                     | short dress if a female sub
         night nurse | sneaking in now that it is evening
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I think you need to feel a level of trust before 
                     | you can enter inot that kinda
     ~nikki~  (busy) | play, IMHO, anyway
            faith b. | hello all
         effy (busy) | it also totally depends on *who* is doing the 
                     | humiliating.
         Aria (busy) | umm what if you dont ever wear underware?
         Leda (busy) | I think so too, nikki.
  Zen Whacking Stick | i like shareware..chuckle
       GrandPaDeSade | I tell NS she is no better than a hole in the bed. 
                     | One of the reasons it turns
       GrandPaDeSade | her on is because it's safe to react that way. She 
                     | knows it's not how I really
       GrandPaDeSade | feel.
        Night Spirit | Aria here in parts of SF, wearing a dress and no 
                     | underear is very daring
  Zen Whacking Stick | what about a sub having to tell a stranger that she 
                     | is submissive and why?
  Zen Whacking Stick | would you find that humilating?
      Lord Excalibur | wearing of no underwear is a pretty comonplace 
                     | thing NS, I don't think it comes
      Lord Excalibur | into humiliation, possibly short dresses in a 
                     | female sub
             Dickie® | my ex never wore underwear
         Aria (busy) | nope Zen
         Aria (busy) | mostly cause I wouldn't see that person again
     ~nikki~  (busy) | No, Zen.......I could do that no probs.......
        Night Spirit | I dressed a male sub I had as a bag lady and sent 
                     | him grocery shopping--he
        Night Spirit | loved it
  Zen Whacking Stick | smiles
       Brandy (busy) | no panties is a turn on for men ...i like to tease 
                     | a man by telling him im not
       Brandy (busy) | wearing any
  Zen Whacking Stick | wicked NS
         Aria (busy) | <nodding>
         Aria (busy) | brb
         effy (busy) | someone asked me today if being the demo slave for 
                     | a caning was
         effy (busy) | humiliating (i did it in front of a couple hundred 
                     | people) I said no, it would have
         effy (busy) | been much more humiliating if it had been people I 
                     | knew
         *Eldersign* | :thoughtful: When I worked in a club in SF...I once 
                     | had a
         *Eldersign* | new client...who sweated, whimpered and 
                     | cried...over an
         *Eldersign* | hour, just because I made her raise up her 
                     | skirt...humiliation
         *Eldersign* | is really relative.
        Night Spirit | effy good point
        Night Spirit | but I go to play parties and game nights with folks 
                     | I do know--and strip
         effy (busy) | i meant, vanilla friends NS <clarifying> <s>
        Night Spirit | oh
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I found being made to actually *talk* to someone 
                     | (watching) during a public
     ~nikki~  (busy) | scene MORE humiliating then being played with.
        Night Spirit | so is humilation a good thing?
       MoL's Katie J | it can be an aphrodisiac
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Again, NS....depends of the genral mood of the 
                     | players
        Night Spirit | nikki why?
         *Eldersign* | Sure...if it reinforces the sense of control your 
                     | person has
         *Eldersign* | over you.
       MoL's Katie J | but it depends on how the parties feel about it.
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I have trouble verbalising, NS.......
         Leda (busy) | A good thing?  It's an erotic thing, sometimes, and 
                     | a difficult thing other
         Leda (busy) | times--overall, for me, it raises the heat of the 
                     | play, so, yep, I think it
         Leda (busy) | works with my relationship.
         effy (busy) | i can say that in personal experience, I think it 
                     | makes you a stronger person,
         effy (busy) | cuz you learn how to deal with that part of you.. 
                     | it takes down barriers of fear of
         effy (busy) | the unknown (for me anyhow)
        Night Spirit | ah nikki then yes I do understand.
              marieM | I think when it allows us to slip beyond  - to 
                     | places we *want* to go.. it's a
              marieM | good thing..
       GrandPaDeSade | I have had submissives get on a bus with no panties 
                     | on, sit in a sideways
       GrandPaDeSade | facing seat, and flash the person(s) sitting 
                     | accross form them. (I sat nearby
       GrandPaDeSade | and was ready to protect her if needed. I also had 
                     | her get of in a very public
       GrandPaDeSade | spot with lots of people aroundd and our car 
                     | nearby.)
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I didn't know the guy.......but he was chatting 
                     | away like I had known him for
     ~nikki~  (busy) | years.......I was.....well, .....er......getting 
                     | kinda hot from the
     ~nikki~  (busy) | play.......HE could see that.......I could have 
                     | DIED!!!
              marieM | sometimes it helps us break down barriers.. or like 
                     | nikki said do something
              marieM | that is hard for her
               STEVE | hi everyone......look at all the people
        Night Spirit | ok in private---do we like it?
       GrandPaDeSade | nikki, it turned you on more though didn't it?
        Night Spirit | and how do we use it?
         *Eldersign* | :chuckles: You were saying, ladies?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I suppose so, GPDS
         Lynn <busy> | <does not like verbal humilation
        Night Spirit | I have used it on subs my keeping them in their 
                     | place, like during puppy
        Night Spirit | training
         Leda (busy) | I think it can emphasize certain things in the D/s 
                     | relationship--certainly
         Leda (busy) | control, as Elder noted, and deepen the sense of 
                     | submission and the
         Leda (busy) | relinquishing of control.  I guess the key is: 
                     | every individual thing doesn't
         Leda (busy) | have to be "good" exactly, or liked by the subbie, 
                     | perhaps, as long as it
         Leda (busy) | strengthens the overall relationship.  IMO.
        Night Spirit | why Lynn? and what is TOO far to you?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | No, Lynn......I was just asked to speak to the 
                     | guy.......no humiliation in
     ~nikki~  (busy) | that......it was just the *idea* that made me cringe
         Lynn <busy> | it makes me furioius.. kills my mood
         Lynn <busy> | and makes me much less than submissive
       GrandPaDeSade | We are taught that sex is a private thing. It's not 
                     | surprising that for many of
       GrandPaDeSade | os some aspects of making it public are thrilling.
         effy (busy) | i would say that's a bad thing for a subby <s>
         Lynn <busy> | name calling..it's just not for me
         Lynn <busy> | yup, effy <s>
        Night Spirit | I understand Lynn :)
   ElectricBlueyes>M | The other night there was a quite intense
   ElectricBlueyes>M | debate on the simple use of the terms
   ElectricBlueyes>M | slave/sub---some (myself included)
   ElectricBlueyes>M | thinking the term slave is degrading
   ElectricBlueyes>M | beyond humiliating
         effy (busy) | what about the private humiliation, the displaying 
                     | for him, or his friends, the
         effy (busy) | loss of control without bondage?
         Aria (busy) | Lynn other than that word slut, or whore, I hate 
                     | verbal public humiliation..
         Aria (busy) | and before Madrigal... i wouldn't accept it from 
                     | ANYONE... even in private...
        Night Spirit | EBE I understand how some may feel that, but to me 
                     | I perfer property
         Lynn <busy> | <s> Aria...
       GrandPaDeSade | And yet NS likes to be known as my "property"
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Hot, effy
         Lynn <busy> | dislaying for my Dom is wonderful..
       GrandPaDeSade | Not even a slave.
         *Eldersign* | GP...that's a reflection of her regard for YOU, 
                     | personally.
         Lynn <busy> | very hot, effy <s>
        Night Spirit | ok how many here would wear a collar to go out in 
                     | public lets say to go
        Night Spirit | shopping?
         effy (busy) | <wants to explore the loss of control without 
                     | bondage>
         *Eldersign* | I doubt she'd feel the same way for someone else.
         effy (busy) | <raising hand>
         Aria (busy) | I have
         Lynn <busy> | I would
              marieM | i have
       GrandPaDeSade | But it does have a relation to this discussion.
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I would and have, NS
         night nurse | i would
   ElectricBlueyes>M | But the connotation of "slave" is forced--I
   ElectricBlueyes>M | give myself happily to my Mistress
         Aria (busy) | no its not Ebe
   ElectricBlueyes>M | that's my 2 cents for the night ,s>
        Night Spirit | ok how many would wear cuffs ankles and wrists 
                     | shopping?
       MoL's Katie J | I wore my collar on the plane to see MoL .. but 
                     | wouldn't where my vanilla
         StrongHeart | <quitely smiling and taking some notes>
       MoL's Katie J | friends would see me.
              marieM | for some it's not that EBE is a slave to his 
                     | passions.. and yours
         Lynn <busy> | <S>
       GrandPaDeSade | NS have you ever been anyone else's "property"
         effy (busy) | I have worn them other places, not clubbing, NS, 
                     | does that count?
              marieM | and more than that even
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Ebe!  A slave ain't *forced*......it is what she 
                     | desires.....each ot their own,
     ~nikki~  (busy) | bro
        Night Spirit | yep effy
         Aria (busy) | i would like to come back that with  you privately 
                     | if you want... another time
         Aria (busy) | perhaps?
         Lynn <busy> | I wouldn't wear them shopping.. no
       GrandPaDeSade | Slave as we use it is a willing slave
               sarah | I would do it if he asked me to, of course
         Aria (busy) | leather ones Night Spirit?
   ElectricBlueyes>M | a willing slave--then that's fine
         Aria (busy) | ir bracelets?
         Aria (busy) | or even
   ElectricBlueyes>M | it is simply the connotation
         effy (busy) | but NS -- all D/s wear (if you are edger of gen x/ 
                     | boomer) is *fashion*
        Night Spirit | ok if the Mistress or Master asked you as a 
                     | sub/slave/property/whatever to wear
        Night Spirit | cuffs will going shopping how would you feel?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | willing = consensual, Ebe......
   ElectricBlueyes>M | daaaaaaaaah, nikki!!!
        Night Spirit | effy I agree but some still feel uncomfortable in it
         Lynn <busy> | My Master.. would not ask such a thing
       MoL's Katie J | MoL sent me bracelets .. which I wore ... until my 
                     | mother looked at them and
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I would do that too.....and proudly so, NS
       MoL's Katie J | said .. slave bracelets .. really, Kate!!
         Aria (busy) | (bouncing leg)guys, I think i might have to leave 
                     | <sigh>
        Night Spirit | EBE that is a discussion for I think 2 weeks from 
                     | now
         effy (busy) | I wear a choker collar every day to work -- and for 
                     | those of you who know where
         effy (busy) | I work....
         Leda (busy) | I had to wear my collar to a Broadway play, in 
                     | evening wear.
       MoL's Katie J | then I wore just one <G>
         Leda (busy) | It was difficult.
               sarah | If Exile requested it of me...I would do it happily
         effy (busy) | <laffin> it don't get much more public
         Leda (busy) | But I do it because I am told to do it.
         Leda (busy) | <shrug>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | ok--sorry, NH!
       GrandPaDeSade | There are those on the fringes of BDSM who practice 
                     | unwilling slavery too. They
       GrandPaDeSade | feel they are owned by another, even with rights of 
                     | sale.
         *Eldersign* | :knows Kate's mother...and she could pick out a 
                     | snowflake
         *Eldersign* | in a blizzard, and give it hell:
        Night Spirit | Leda but how would you feel, doing your duty, or a 
                     | tiny thrill or ho hum
        Night Spirit | another task another spanking
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Too deep for me, GPDS
       GrandPaDeSade | Agree nikki
         Leda (busy) | Never, "ho hum, another spanking, NS" <laffin>  No 
                     | such thing.
        Night Spirit | GrPa that is another subject later on the schedule
         Leda (busy) | I felt--conspicuous.
         Leda (busy) | And good that I was pleasing my Master.
               sarah | <- tiny thrill
         Aria (busy) | <quietly says> I was once very close to that 
                     | mindset though GPDS
         Leda (busy) | So a mix of good and bad.
       GrandPaDeSade | I have taken NS walking in downtown San Francisco 
                     | hands bound, in collar and on
       GrandPaDeSade | a leash. Flogger at my side.
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Ooops!   Sorry, Aria.......just how *I* feel,
         night nurse | isn;t it all defined by the level at which the 
                     | relationship is at
        Night Spirit | so we feel some humilation is good mostly in 
                     | private...so now how about play
        Night Spirit | parties how do you feel then?
           ~wrybrat~ | NS.. how did that make you feel?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Wow!!!  Talk about a mental mind fuck, GPDS    ^5's
              marieM | GPDS is that becasue its San Fran or would you do 
                     | that in the burbs as well?
         Aria (busy) | I don't think it has a place at parties....
        Night Spirit | wry I am an actress from way back I get off being 
                     | the center of attention
         effy (busy) | SF / WLA doesn't count, imo <sorry NS!!!>
       GrandPaDeSade | Aria. I'm not saying it's wrong. Just not my thing. 
                     | I never complain if that's
           ~wrybrat~ | <g>
       GrandPaDeSade | what the person wants.
        Night Spirit | marie did it in SF, Reno, Vegas and sonoma
         *Eldersign* | :does not see this happening in Des Moines:
         effy (busy) | neither does vegas <g>
              daisey | <giggle> Elder
         Aria (busy) | and the reason that I say that, is because I think 
                     | that at a party, the world
         Aria (busy) | should see the mutual respect that the people have 
                     | for each other
        Night Spirit | Aria why?
       GrandPaDeSade | We have dome in in San Francisco, Reno, Las Vegas, 
                     | and smaller cities around SF.
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Agreed Aria......
         Leda (busy) | It depends on the form of humiliation, perhaps, 
                     | Aria. <s>  I mean,
         Leda (busy) | objectification--making the sub act as a table, 
                     | say--is humiliating, but it can
         Leda (busy) | also make for an effective public scene. <s>  part 
                     | of one.
         night nurse | I would agree Aria
         Aria (busy) | that isn't humiliating to me at all Leda
        Night Spirit | Leda does make a good point
         Leda (busy) | Ahhh--but it would be for me. <g>
         Lynn <busy> | me too, Leda
         effy (busy) | doesn't it also depend on how secure the sub is 
                     | with the Dom? GPDS said
         effy (busy) | earlier that he could tell NS she was no better 
                     | than a hole in the bed, cuz NS
         effy (busy) | knew better
         Leda (busy) | But it would also be a way I would enjoy showing my 
                     | submission publicly--
       GrandPaDeSade | She has been chained to slot machines in Reno and 
                     | Vegas.
     ~nikki~  (busy) | It depends if objectification turns you on 
                     | though.......
         Leda (busy) | and all the more valuable because it *would* be 
                     | humiliating to  me. <s>
         night nurse | humilation and the type of it occuring is a 
                     | personal opinion
       GrandPaDeSade | Depends on the sub effy.
         Aria (busy) | but then my limits are pretty broad... and as I 
                     | noted.... I was very close to
         Aria (busy) | the mind set that GPDS suggested earlier at a point 
                     | in my life...
         effy (busy) | <remembering sutra leading river by a leash thru 
                     | the casinos in vegas>
         Aria (busy) | i think i might have liked to see that
         Aria (busy) | <g>
       GrandPaDeSade | I once knew someone who liked REAL gang rapes 
                     | because she liked to REALLY be
       GrandPaDeSade | humiliated.
        Night Spirit | effy this is true because I know in my heart I am a 
                     | million times better then a
        Night Spirit | bloody hole in the bed
       Brandy (busy) | thats offel!
         effy (busy) | <and I agree>
         effy (busy) | i think so too NS
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I would put that on the border of abuse, GPDS
         effy (busy) | I was just saying that it depends on the personal 
                     | relationship, no?
       Brandy (busy) | <agreed too>
       GrandPaDeSade | Again, that's not my thing, but it's what she 
                     | wanted. . .
         night nurse | i would agree effy
        Night Spirit | now see I am pretty daring but personally I am not 
                     | into gang rapes and such, I
        Night Spirit | just love it when he bounds my wrists and says take 
                     | it BITCH and I am flying in
        Night Spirit | subbie space
              marieM | agreed effy and finding out where those boundaries 
                     | are for each of us and
              marieM | together
       GrandPaDeSade | Is it abuse if it's what one wants?
       Brandy (busy) | id like that too nite spirit
         night nurse | not if that is what is desired and gives both 
                     | pleasure
     *The Inspector* | self-abuse maybe?
        Night Spirit | ah good point Inspector
         Aria (busy) | What if the person doesn't realise that they are 
                     | harming themself mentally?
         Aria (busy) | emotionally? and physically?
              daisey | goodpoint TI
         effy (busy) | is wanting to be taken just how he wants to take 
                     | you .. humiliation?
       GrandPaDeSade | Isn't any masochist into self-abuse. Don't they 
                     | want what they get? Where is
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Hmmmmm......I would say REAL gang rape is abuse  
                     | (in my book).......if
       GrandPaDeSade | the line?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | not........we could say snuff wasn't abuse cos it 
                     | is what the perosn
     ~nikki~  (busy) | wanted.....no?
         Aria (busy) | i think the point is to NOT harm... and even if it 
                     | is what the sub wants...
         Aria (busy) | does that mean that you give it to them?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Exactly, Aria
        Night Spirit | Aria sometimes what we think of as normal such as 
                     | being called a BITCH others
        Night Spirit | see as verbal abuse
       Brandy (busy) | i agree Aria
       GrandPaDeSade | But if the "victim" sets up the gang-rape, then is 
                     | it abuse?
              daisey | <- personally would not like Exile to call me names
         effy (busy) | safe *sane* and consensual
         Aria (busy) | The Dom's job is to make sure that the sub isn't 
                     | harmed... thats why you give
         Aria (busy) | up control to them
       MoL's Katie J | if there is consent, it is not rape.
         Aria (busy) | yes, it is self abuse
       GrandPaDeSade | How do we define harm
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I would have to ask.....WHO is running the scene, 
                     | GPDS......the Dom or the sub
     ~nikki~  (busy) | (victim)
       GrandPaDeSade | The law thinks most of us are crazy
        Night Spirit | GrPa please stick to the subject--humilation
           ~wrybrat~ | well.. couldn't harm be a product of humiliation?
       GrandPaDeSade | The authorities would jail us all if they could. 
                     | they would say we are all
       GrandPaDeSade | doing harm to one another.
         night nurse | in some countries slapping a face makes the person 
                     | you slapped your slave
       GrandPaDeSade | OK, sorry.
         Leda (busy) | Psychological harm, wry, yes.  That's why the Dom 
                     | doing the humiliating had
         Leda (busy) | better damn well know his sub.
       GrandPaDeSade | I felt that was, but I'll let it go.
        Night Spirit | wry humilation in itself should be negoatated 
                     | before hand
         effy (busy) | tripwires
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <thinking>.......okay.....how about......A Dom asks 
                     | his sub/slave to tell
         Leda (busy) | We all have emotional hot-buttons--and verbal 
                     | humiliation could turn into
         Leda (busy) | verbal "abuse" in my mind if it strayed into the 
                     | wrong areas.
     ~nikki~  (busy) | another Dom where, how and why she last 
                     | masturbated?     Humiliation??????
       MoL's Katie J | yes, there are limits to humiliation as well.
           ~wrybrat~ | how are your boundaries ever going to be pushed if 
                     | *everything* is negotiated
           ~wrybrat~ | before hand?
        Night Spirit | nikki is the other Dom a friend or stranger?
         Leda (busy) | Yep, Katie--and it helps if you know what really 
                     | *hurts* your subbie.
         effy (busy) | tripwires
         Aria (busy) | wry... thats the point
        Night Spirit | but limits should be set long before one plays
         effy (busy) | you have to know the tripwires
         Aria (busy) | you point out where you will allow them to push
              daisey | I agree with wry on that one
     ~nikki~  (busy) | NS.......either.......Dom choice.
         Leda (busy) | I don't know that it's negotiation so much in this 
                     | case, wry, so much as
         Leda (busy) | getting to *know* one anohter.
         Aria (busy) | area's that you don't want them to touch
         Aria (busy) | and areas that you are wide open on
         Leda (busy) | Mentor knows I have issues with certain things 
                     | because of things in my past.
        Night Spirit | nikki wouldn't bother me, but some it would..I am a 
                     | sick puppy
         effy (busy) | <-- doesn't do daddy scenes, nuh uh no way
         Leda (busy) | All that gets taken into account, in some fashion, 
                     | in our play. <s>
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <<--- is a sick puppy to, NS   <hugs>
      Lord Excalibur | but like negotiations of boundaries NS humiliation 
                     | is a subject to be pushed
              daisey | we have a checklist of about 100 things that Exile 
                     | found....and it has a place
              daisey | to decide whether that is a hard or a sof tlimit 
                     | wry wry
       MoL's Katie J | exactly, Leda ... one has to be aware of the traps 
                     | we all have inside.
         Leda (busy) | yes--and sometimes you only learn when you step on 
                     | a landmine. <s>
        Night Spirit | see I am overweight GrPa would never call me pig or 
                     | fat cuz it would hurt me,
        Night Spirit | call me a whore or slut doesn't--but afterall they 
                     | are just words--but have
        Night Spirit | different effects
      Lord Excalibur | yes that a good list I have it logged on file
              daisey | <S> LE
             Victor  | hello all
         Leda (busy) | Right, NS--he knows what would be *hurtful*
         Leda (busy) | Or perhaps I mean harmful. <s>
              marieM | sometimes pushing the boundaries starts with small 
                     | steps.. what everyone has
              marieM | said a few times it's with partners  who have some 
                     | knowledge at.. - like with
              marieM | any scene - there are signals both give off when to 
                     | stop or keep going
                beth | good evening
      Lord Excalibur | if anybody wants it I will send it if they can't 
                     | find it on line
        Night Spirit | there are always places to explore, to learn to 
                     | stretch but there are some
        Night Spirit | places you do not touch--even a tiny push can be 
                     | too much
       GrandPaDeSade | You did have me call you a pig once NS, but i don't 
                     | think ift gave you the
       GrandPaDeSade | control over your memories you hoped it would.
         Leda (busy) | I think emotional limits are not to be pushed 
                     | lightly, ever, LE. <s>
      Lord Excalibur | especiallly in the mental aspect NS
       MoL's Katie J | that's why communication is so important in what we 
                     | do.
         effy (busy) | <agrees>
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Me too, Leda......
        Night Spirit | I agree :)
        Night Spirit | our relationships and lifestyle is what we make it 
                     | and how we are willing to
        Night Spirit | let them grow
              daisey | <IMHO..submission always pushes my emotional limits>
      Lord Excalibur | true Leda, know your sub.slave properly and her 
                     | emotional limits is very very
      Lord Excalibur | important
         Aria (busy) | Yeah, there is so much tied up in emotional stuff 
                     | within this that we have to
         Aria (busy) | be careful not to push too hard, even when we are 
                     | with those we trust, with
         Aria (busy) | long standing partners.
       GrandPaDeSade | I went alone with it because she seemed to be 
                     | trying to make the painful memory
       GrandPaDeSade | less hurtful.
         Leda (busy) | We're talking about humiliation, Daisy.
         night nurse | then isn't a matter of trusting your Dom/Domme that 
                     | when you say stop or
         night nurse | whatever your safe word is that they stop
        Night Spirit | ok last part of humilation....you went to far in 
                     | what the sub was asked, how do
        Night Spirit | you undo the damage?
       GrandPaDeSade | Isn't thet the reason for some of the humiliation 
                     | we do is a "safe" enviorment.
         Aria (busy) | For me, some things, that would push my limits 
                     | would become truly humiliating,
      Lord Excalibur | loving and kindness
         Aria (busy) | and then really hurt me... so I think that is kind 
                     | of tied up with this Night
         Aria (busy) | Spirit
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Cominication, aftercare, and a wagon load of hugs, 
                     | NS
         Leda (busy) | If the underlying relationship is sound, you'll 
                     | repair it like any other
         Leda (busy) | fissure. <s>  With time and care and patching and 
                     | learning from your mistakes.
         Leda (busy) | And love. <s>
      Lord Excalibur | ok so I reduced it nikki
         Leda (busy) | And, yep nikki--good ole communication. <S>
         effy (busy) | can the damage be repaired? especially if it is 
                     | emotional? I mean, wounds
         effy (busy) | heal... but trust....?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | LOL   LE
         Aria (busy) | reinforcement of the love and trust that you have 
                     | for each other?
           ~wrybrat~ | I believe that trust heals too..
        Night Spirit | so we agree it can be a good thing, done in places 
                     | agreed upon and if we step
        Night Spirit | over the line, love and communications can conquer 
                     | it
         effy (busy) | if the Dom went seriously too far?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Depends, effy........trust to me is a biggie.....
         effy (busy) | me too nik
         Leda (busy) | I think if Mentor really strayed into ground where 
                     | I went ballistic, effy, it
         Leda (busy) | would be something we both would learn from.  if he 
                     | proceeded regardless of my
         Leda (busy) | reaction, it would be a lot more serious.
      Lord Excalibur | in time wry but special care is needed, a reduction 
                     | of play maybe more
      Lord Excalibur | attention to love and kindness
        Night Spirit | truth effy if I told GrPa red and had to say it 
                     | again, there is no trust and no
        Night Spirit | relationship, I trust him to stop--period
         Leda (busy) | Exactly, NS.
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Exactly, NS.....spot on.
               CA§EY | hi every body
        Night Spirit | so if we screw up we give alot of love :)
         night nurse | well spoken NS
        Night Spirit | ok any last words?
      Lord Excalibur | yes
         effy (busy) | I trust my Dom not to get too lost in his space... 
                     | I mean, if he did -- what
         effy (busy) | protection do I have then?
         Aria (busy) | <nodding> Yes... only once did I have a humiliation 
                     | go past the bounds of
         Aria (busy) | D/s... and it took me months of working on my own...
        Night Spirit | effy that is an excellant point----
         Aria (busy) | to make it back to being able to trust...
         Aria (busy) | and to play again...
      Lord Excalibur | we all slip effy, but a valid point
       GrandPaDeSade | You have had to NS. When you speak too softly and I 
                     | don't hear it.
         effy (busy) | I would be skittish and call stop before we ever 
                     | really got far enough for me to
         effy (busy) | lose myself, then what would the point be?
       GrandPaDeSade | But otherwise, I agree.
         Aria (busy) | I think that it helps if you are with the person in 
                     | person, frequently, cause
         Aria (busy) | LDR doesn't help heal that kind of wound
        Night Spirit | that doesn't count :)
      Lord Excalibur | true Aria but it is possible
         effy (busy) | I once had to call stop four times, I never saw 
                     | that person again, nor do I really
         effy (busy) | trust him even still (has been years)
           ~wrybrat~ | it can exacerbate it, aria.. but with work trust 
                     | heals...
         Leda (busy) | Yes, but effy--that one time when it was going too 
                     | far and the Dom was losing
         Leda (busy) | himself in his space, you would have a 
                     | responsibility to both of you to call a
         Leda (busy) | stop.  And if he didn't, well--he doesn't deserve 
                     | to be trusted.
         effy (busy) | <shrugs>
         effy (busy) | it worked out I guess
              daisey | 4 times??????
         effy (busy) | 4 times
         Leda (busy) | That sucks, effy.
              daisey | <sigh>
       GrandPaDeSade | I wouldn't either effy.
              daisey | if i even look like i am gonna use my safe word we 
                     | are stopping and discussing
         night nurse | that is good communication between the both of you 
                     | daisey
        Night Spirit | ok due to the death of my computer, I do not have 
                     | what is on schedule for next
        Night Spirit | week
        Night Spirit | do you Katie?
       MoL's Katie J | let me look NS
              daisey | <- uses NS's amber word too...<and a thank u to her 
                     | for that>
           ~wrybrat~ | amber word?
      Lord Excalibur | I only need to mentio purple to LA and she will do 
                     | anythihng <s>
       MoL's Katie J | Differences between B&D, D/s, S&M
       MoL's Katie J | What is a Dom
       MoL's Katie J | What is a Sub
       MoL's Katie J | What is a Sadist
       MoL's Katie J | What is a Masochist
       MoL's Katie J | What is Bondage and
       MoL's Katie J | What is Discipline
       MoL's Katie J | What is S&M
         effy (busy) | green yellow red, like that wry
       MoL's Katie J | What is D/s to You
       MoL's Katie J | Differences Between Sub, Slave & Property
              daisey | a middle ground word...a yellow word for i am 
                     | approaching a danger zone wry wry
       MoL's Katie J | ya, I got it.
           ~wrybrat~ | <s> thanks
      Lord Excalibur | knocking out the door fram e so Katie can get out
        Night Spirit | while Miss Katie get's next week subject I urge you 
                     | all to use the message
        Night Spirit | section for anything, poems, arguements, soemthing 
                     | you saw in the paper, or
        Night Spirit | have questions.  If you have stories or pictures 
                     | you want in the library please
        Night Spirit | do
        Night Spirit | ahhhhhhhhh
         Leda (busy) | My yellow is "yowwwww, godohgodohgod I can't take 
                     | much anymooooore" <laffin>
        Night Spirit | next we discuss it what do these words mean
              daisey | <giggle> Leda
        Night Spirit | EBE I hope you can come to that one
         Aria (busy) | mine is Yellow <G>
              daisey | well... i use *ouchie* too
           ~wrybrat~ | <laffing>
        Night Spirit | and give us your input on the subject
              daisey | <giggling>
         Aria (busy) | i say ow all the time
   ElectricBlueyes>M | I will do my best, NH!! <s>
         Aria (busy) | but that doesn't mean  i want it to stop <G>
       GrandPaDeSade | To us yello is slow down OR change direction, I',m 
                     | approaching a limit.
         Leda (busy) | <G> That keeps it nice and simple, Aria.
         effy (busy) | lol Aria
              daisey | oooo Aria....i am a quiet one
           ~wrybrat~ | the topic is the differences?
         Leda (busy) | I think it's more my *volume* than what I say. <g>
       GrandPaDeSade | Saves having to use red and have things stop
        Night Spirit | wry it is differences in sub/slave.property/dom/top
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <<--- say  "Ohhhhhhhh shit"  Or  "F**********"   LOL
              daisey | <- agreed G'Pa
           ~wrybrat~ | thanks <s>
              daisey | oo no...the *F* word makes it worse
        Night Spirit | just what the heck are the differences--or is there 
                     | any?
       MoL's Katie J | Thanks to all of you for a most enjoyable 
                     | discussion <s>
       GrandPaDeSade | Also means she can yell stop, oh shit, or anything 
                     | else she wants with freedom.
           ~wrybrat~ | thanks to our very own ops.. <s>
        Night Spirit | Ladies and Gentlemen I once again am very happy you 
                     | could all join us
       MoL's Katie J | and we can always continue these discussions on the 
                     | message boards here
              daisey | if i say that damn F word next thing i know u am in 
                     | the middle of a math
              daisey | lesson<giggle>
           ~wrybrat~ | <clapping for the terrorous trio>
        Night Spirit | you make this very special :) esp to me
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Thanks to our Hosts  <smiling>
       MoL's Katie J | And FemSubs .. reserve next Tuesday night for the 
                     | subbie CO :-)
              daisey | a big Thank ya
        Night Spirit | Katie is right please use the message section for 
                     | anything you want
              daisey | what time KJ?
         Aria (busy) | Can we do a switches  conference as well?
       MoL's Katie J | 10:30 pm, edt ..... next Tuesday night
        Night Spirit | Katie would you post that on the message board 
                     | please and send a copy to while E
              daisey | <translating time xzones><blonde look>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | awwwwwwwwwwww--NS so sweet--can't
   ElectricBlueyes>M | be a Domme bone in her <eg>
       MoL's Katie J | of course, Aria .. you are also welcome to the 
                     | subbie co too
        Night Spirit | Aria want to lead them?
         Aria (busy) | oh sure...
         Aria (busy) | why not
        Night Spirit | Aria let's talk
         Aria (busy) | <shrugging>
         Aria (busy) | Sure thing...
       MoL's Katie J | sorta like being free and over 21 .. you can do 
                     | anything you want <G>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | I'm always the only male sub!  Where are
   ElectricBlueyes>M | all those AOL guys???
        Night Spirit | lol
   ElectricBlueyes>M | <s>
       MoL's Katie J | on AOL. Ebe.
         night nurse | sleeping
       GrandPaDeSade | On AOL
         effy (busy) | <grinning at Ebe, apologizing for biting him at the 
                     | start of the CO>
              daisey | <thanking God they are on AOL>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | ummmm--ya can bite me anytime, effy!
         effy (busy) | you weren't supposed to enjoy it!!
         effy (busy) | <dangit>
     ~nikki~  (busy) | effy.....you *bite*??   Damn!  I wish you had told 
                     | me.....LOL
         effy (busy) | <sharpenin teef>
   ElectricBlueyes>M | back off, nikki--I am effy's bitee! LOL
         Leda (busy) | G'night, good folk. <s>
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <poking toothbrush at ya>
         effy (busy) | oh gosh, gee, thanks, nik!~
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Cya you all back in cb......
     ~nikki~  (busy) | LOL effy......<hugs>
           ~wrybrat~ | <waving>
       MoL's Katie J | huggs to all!
         effy (busy) | <hugs to all>
              marieM | night and Thanks for the CO
           ~wrybrat~ | NS.. have a moment.
           ~wrybrat~ | ?
         night nurse | night all
       Brandy (busy) | hugs everyone
       GrandPaDeSade | wry, hang on a sec, I'll ask her.
           ~wrybrat~ | thanks <s>
********** 8/9/98  6:10 PM End logging Silken Ties.