Questions and Answers about BDSM & D/s
(Open Forum)
********** 10/11/98  4:59 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
               zilli | whenever i had a question the prof always answered 
                     | it with a question.
          Marky-Mark | Hi marie
 SideWinder (Berlin) | Back off, Katie .. this one is mine
               zilli | fried green humour?
       MoL's Katie J | Did he, zilli?
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | Non-time-zone-specific greetings, roomies!
 SideWinder (Berlin) | i still need it
               zilli | katiej <hugzzz>
 SideWinder (Berlin) | hi katie
         <MS' EBE> M | good evening to all  <s>
       MoL's Katie J | hugzzz zilli
              marieM | hugs Katie..
 SideWinder (Berlin) | moin idaho
               zilli | hiya lynz <hugz>
       MoL's Katie J | hiya Sidewinder
      *Night Spirit* | <--waves to the crowd and asks very nicely to Miss 
                     | Katie--got CMW running?
              marieM | EBE..
       MoL's Katie J | hugs marie
               zilli | hiya ns (s)
      *Night Spirit* | hiya zilla
       MoL's Katie J | hugs NS, and I can in a minute .. you want it?
      *Night Spirit* | and zilli
         <MS' EBE> M | hi marie!!!  LTNS!!!!  <s>
 SideWinder (Berlin) | good morning NS
               zilli | <g>
      *Night Spirit* | yes Katie sure do :)
 SideWinder (Berlin) | gooood morning ebe!
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | CMW?
      *Night Spirit* | morning sidewinder
               zilli | hiya ebe (s)
      *Night Spirit* | conferance modiator workstation
         <MS' EBE> M | hi SW!! <s>
         <MS' EBE> M | hi zilli
         <MS' EBE> M | <s>
               zilli | we moderated tonight?
               zilli | hiya MoL <hugz>
      *Night Spirit* | mine is on the fritz
 SideWinder (Berlin) | what the hecks a modiator? <ducking behind his 
                     | couch>
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | Whazzat for?
               zilli | lol sw
         <MS' EBE> M | How have ya been, marie????
   Master of Leisure | hiyas,,,zilli one..<s>
               zilli | lynz, to control unruly sorts (eg)
              marieM | we are always moderated zilli <S> didn't think you 
                     | were an exhibitionist did
              marieM | you zilli <G>
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | <-- Doesn't believe in moderation.
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | <g>
              marieM | actually good .. EBE and youo
               zilli | marie hahaha
      *Night Spirit* | tonight's conferance is a question and answer one, 
                     | using CMW we have less
      *Night Spirit* | chance of folks talking over folks
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | Ahhhh....  you mean your big gun! <GG>
         <MS' EBE> M | well too, marie...glad to hear that :-)
               zilli | lynz, some of us gots little guns...but they're 
                     | highly effective <wink>
   Master of Leisure | good evening,,,,NS.....<S>......huggggs..hon
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | lol
      *Night Spirit* | hugs MoL
         <MS' EBE> M | hi NS <s>
 SideWinder (Berlin) | <-- don't need guns, has a great sense of really 
                     | annoying
 SideWinder (Berlin) | humour
              marieM | hugs MoL
               zilli | <laffin@sw>
   Master of Leisure | huggggs..marie......<s>
      *Night Spirit* | first I want to thank you all for comming, and if 
                     | you want please post stuff
      *Night Spirit* | (like pictures, stories whatever) in the library
         <MS' EBE> M | Lynzy..????  somehow think I know ya!!??
       MoL's Katie J | give me a few <s>
      *Night Spirit* | MichaelP has some of his erotic tales there
      *Night Spirit* | and hiya EBE :)
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | Yes Ms.?
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | If you're a former HSXer, you prolly do...
               zilli | hiya cricket <hugz>
              marieM | <S> I hope he is writing more.. NS he promised me a 
                     | story
      Dmi's crickett | hiya zilli <s> hugs
      *Night Spirit* | marie I hope so too, cuz he is an excellant writer
            Old Wolf | hi's all around
      Dmi's crickett | <waves to OW>
              marieM | eveing Old Wolf
   Master of Leisure | re's....OW
               zilli | oldwolf<hugzx>
      Dmi's crickett | ~~~~~waving to NS, too
         <MS' EBE> M | MS??? Og geez///forgot I had this on>>>>>>>>
   Master of Leisure | winks at crickie for the second time
                 REX | any cuties from NY?
      Dmi's crickett | ooooo whoooooo hoooo...<winks back>
      *Night Spirit* | ok tonight's discussion is a question and answer.  
                     | You ask questions we will
      *Night Spirit* | attempt to answer HUGGEROOS crickett
   Master of Leisure | wrong station...rex......try 59th St
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | What is it s'posed to say? <s>
      Dmi's crickett | <sits down in the middle of the room cross legged 
                     | and waits>
      *Night Spirit* | ok anyone have any questions? they have been dieing 
                     | to ask
         <MS' EBE> M | Electricblueyes it usually says, Lynzy  oh well...
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | NS, on the topic of?
      Dmi's crickett | you may want to start us off NS.......
      *Night Spirit* | anything I was asked to have a question and answer 
                     | period----ok let's see
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | At my age, I have more answers than questions...  
                     | isn't *that* annoying??? <GG>
      Dmi's crickett | i would think we all have questions, but dont know 
                     | where to start
              marieM | well actually i want to ask the room to remember 
                     | the young boy - Gary Shepard..
              marieM | who is still in critical conditon from the 
                     | beating.. there was a prayer vigil
              marieM | of sorts last night our Uncommon Ground and there 
                     | are some planned throught the
              marieM | region.. for him tonight.. While.. his fate is in 
                     | God's hand.. we can hope this
              marieM | doesn't scare others from  admiting there kink
      Dmi's crickett | huh?
      Dmi's crickett | who is Gary?
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | Marie...  you're in Laramie?
              marieM | Dmi.. the young college student.. who was beating
   Master of Leisure | wasnt that the person who got beat up in Laramie 
                     | for being
   Master of Leisure | gay..marie
              marieM | for coming out
         <MS' EBE> M | okay, here is one...do most think the terms
         <MS' EBE> M | "slave" and sub" mean the same,,and if not,
         <MS' EBE> M | what are the differences??
              marieM | yes it was MoL
      Dmi's crickett | ooohhh i read about that...
              marieM | it was about 40 miles north of me
      Dmi's crickett | i thought that was sorry as hell.....
 SideWinder (Berlin) | not the same ...
      Dmi's crickett | JOhn  said something about it cause i started crying
   Master of Leisure | Loveland...marie...??
              marieM | yes MoL very close to that
      Dmi's crickett | and no Ebe....they are not the same
   Master of Leisure | I saw it on our local news last nite.........and 
                     | saw the pics of
   Master of Leisure | the two men who beat him up..
            Old Wolf | agreed... quite different
      Dmi's crickett | the differences is that a slave has no say
   Master of Leisure | Highlander (CO) lives right by you..marie..in 
                     | Loveland
         <MS' EBE> M | oh---anyone care to explain??
      *Night Spirit* | EBE ok nice start--sub to me (yes I am no expert) 
                     | is one who submits to someone
      *Night Spirit* | else, a slave submits but in all reality is not 
                     | supposed to ever say NO, they
      *Night Spirit* | leave it up to the Dom/me to control all
      Dmi's crickett | however a submissive does
              marieM | I know i have yet to meet him though.. he must stay 
                     | in the shadows MoL
      Dmi's crickett | uumm....<same thing NS just said>
   Master of Leisure | he is a great guy...has a computer 
                     | business...there...
         <GJ>rebecca | <<observing
      *Night Spirit* | but remember even you YOU agree to be a slave, this 
                     | is the USA you really do
      *Night Spirit* | have the right to leave
      Dmi's crickett | hey becca<s>
         <GJ>rebecca | hi crichett <s>
         <GJ>rebecca | thanks
   Master of Leisure | a slave has no free will...and gives up everything 
                     | to her
   Master of Leisure | Dominant......unlike a sub
      *Night Spirit* | ok here is my question to you all what is safe, 
                     | sane and consentual?
              marieM | also you can submit.. to someone for a scene or a 
                     | time .. a slave at times
              marieM | realizing it is more encompasing
         <MS' EBE> M | It seems a lot of people have a lot of
         <MS' EBE> M | definitions...the terminology sometimes
         <MS' EBE> M | becomes sort of blurred..
              marieM | it may be another step.. and a formalization fo the 
                     | relationship
              marieM | again it is how each realtionship may defin them..
            Old Wolf | NS... I agree.. but I think it reflects more on the 
                     | TYPE of relationship each
            Old Wolf | wants to have.  A sub approaches the Master to be 
                     | "cultivated" (to use a term)
            Old Wolf | while a slave approaches simply to be used.... I 
                     | think a slave has a definite
            Old Wolf | need for humiliation.
      Dmi's crickett | <thinking about NS's question>
      Dmi's crickett | brb
         <GJ>rebecca | k crickett
      *Night Spirit* | EBE in all reality it is what you make it----I like 
                     | being called Allyn's
      *Night Spirit* | property or his toy--I am not a toy or land but I 
                     | am his in my heart
              marieM | OW.. do you think it's more a lifestyle.. in an 
                     | overall controlnot just
              marieM | humilation?
         <MS' EBE> M | so you would think all "slaves" are masochists
         <MS' EBE> M | while submissives not necessarily the case?
      *Night Spirit* | no EBE
              marieM | no EBE
 SideWinder (Berlin) | slaves don't have to be masochists, either
              marieM | there are masochist.. who are not subs or slaves
 SideWinder (Berlin) | but it helps <g>
              marieM | but enjoy the pain.. infact a few of my good 
                     | friends.. will define themselves
              marieM | as such
            Old Wolf | I can't say... I believe it is different depending 
                     | n individual needs... I find
            Old Wolf | the concept of slave to be very limiting (no pun 
                     | intended) in that, I want more
            Old Wolf | than just subserviant sex.... a sub can appeal to 
                     | me on many levels... a slave
            Old Wolf | is restricted to just one
              marieM | and don't want to *submit*
      *Night Spirit* | a slavr is one who without argue, or giving excuses 
                     | does everything the Dom/me
      *Night Spirit* | says--NO QUESTIONS ASK, a sub asks, questions 
                     | negoatates--
              marieM | they just enjoy the sensation play
           ~wrybrat~ | is that written in concrete somewhere, NS?
      *Night Spirit* | no wry
      *Night Spirit* | that is my opinion
              marieM | actually wry there are slave contract.. and more 
                     | details for those wanting that
              marieM | type of reatlionship i have seen
           ~wrybrat~ | <s> meet a slave with an opinion..
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | Well said, Old Wolf...  to me the whole dynamic is 
                     | the ultimate expression of love...  the kind of 
                     | trust implicit in walking
      Lynzy Idaho<f> | through something one fears (as in loss of control 
                     | during sexual situations) is powerfully erotic.
         <MS' EBE> M | <s> wry!!!1
      *Night Spirit* | my contract with GrPa says I can enter the 
                     | realtionship, I can have safewords,
      *Night Spirit* | I can leave---the rest is up to him, I gave him 
                     | me--because I wanted to
              marieM | agreed OW most relationship that work and grow are 
                     | those where the needs and
              marieM | dynamics are fluid and changing
              marieM | ergo both parties must think and give <S>
      *Night Spirit* | wry the opinion in a slave I was terming to his 
                     | master says you will sleep on
      *Night Spirit* | the floor slave does it--no questions, sub might 
                     | ask questions
              marieM | and give
              marieM | and give
      Dmi's crickett | that is the difference, yes NS.
      Dmi's crickett | <as she hobbles back into the room after twisting 
                     | her ankle
           ~wrybrat~ | guess that we have it all wrong then.. <g>
      *Night Spirit* | but that is only to myself, another person may feel 
                     | different--it is what YOU
      *Night Spirit* | make it
         <GJ>rebecca | aaaaww you okay....crickett?
              marieM | but again with the framework of D/s NS this is 
                     | negoitated control that was
              marieM | given at a point in the relationshp both agreed to
      Dmi's crickett | yeah...just getting old , it happens
               zilli | <offerin ice pack to crickett>
      Dmi's crickett | thanks zilli <s>
              marieM | turns on the hot tub for crickett <g>
      Dmi's crickett | no wry, i dont think you have it wrong, as it is 
                     | what you believe
      Dmi's crickett | thanks marie
      *Night Spirit* | marie that is up to the folks in the 
                     | relationship---I decided GrPa has my
      *Night Spirit* | interest at heart--so I gave him me---but I am a 
                     | SAM and I bug him until he
      *Night Spirit* | punishes me <s>
           ~wrybrat~ | <w> I know..
                prof | hello 40 m home alone looking for mature female
                prof | conversation
      Dmi's crickett | <giggles> i know you did
      *Night Spirit* | ok now my question what is safe, sane and 
                     | consentual?
      Dmi's crickett | shhhh prof....listen first
              marieM | good luck prof..
      *Night Spirit* | what does it mean?
           ~wrybrat~ | if I have learned anything.. it's as long as it 
                     | works for the people involved..
                prof | thanks looks like ill need it no one around tonight
           ~wrybrat~ | *nothing* is wrong..
 SideWinder (Berlin) | <-- always thought those were selfexplanatory
      *Night Spirit* | wry I agree
      Dmi's crickett | safe is to where no harm (and harm is what is 
                     | agreed upon) comes to the sub...i
      Dmi's crickett | believe
              marieM | safe = Common sense - not just emotional sense; 
                     | sane again within a framework
              marieM | YOU feel right about, consentual is don't just say 
                     | yes to say yes.
      *Night Spirit* | or is it safe sex or is that included using rubber 
                     | gloves, condoms?
           ~wrybrat~ | well said, marie <s>
         <GJ>rebecca | lol......NS
         <GJ>rebecca | very well spoken....Marie
      Dmi's crickett | and sane is to me is an expression.... for it is 
                     | what both feel and want
         <MS' EBE> M | marie is ALWAYS well spoken  <s>
      *Night Spirit* | ok but in the heat of the moment how many of us 
                     | have NOT been sane or safe?
              marieM | crickeet i agree we all tend to focus on the sub's 
                     | safety but at times i think
              marieM | the Dom's are at risk.. and so it has to be safe 
                     | for both
      Dmi's crickett | yes....marie they can be at times in as much of a 
                     | risk also
               Bunny | Hi room
         <GJ>rebecca | Hi Bunny
              marieM | NS often i want to play.. more.. or just go 
                     | longer.. I trust Michael to know
              marieM | when..to say no.
         <MS' EBE> M | I have heard some stories where Dom/me
         <MS' EBE> M | became suddenly at VERY much risk!!
      Dmi's crickett | thant is where , i suppose sane and the trust of 
                     | each other come into play
      *Night Spirit* | marie how do you feel when he says NO?
      Dmi's crickett | that...oppss darn typo
              marieM | IN addition i think when you play within the 
                     | scene.. public at clubs we forget
              marieM | the*outing * factor is always there\
              marieM | well at first.. i didn
      *Night Spirit* | agreed crickett
                prof | im back whats the ?
              marieM | i accepted.. but.. we talked about it later
            Old Wolf | what makes these conferences to interesting to me 
                     | is the variety of definitions
            Old Wolf | we each bring to the forum.  While we agree in 
                     | general, we each work out a set
            Old Wolf | of "rules of engagement" on a relationship by 
                     | relationship level.  I have
            Old Wolf | learned a bit already.
      Dmi's crickett | <whispers to prof>......shhhhhhssss and listen......
       MoL's Katie J | at the moment, we're talking about safety, prof
                prof | i am male 40 attorney in atlanta
      Dmi's crickett | <hides behind wry>
           ~wrybrat~ | behind me?  <laffing>
   Master of Leisure | are you  a sub or slave...prof.......<chuckling>
                prof | thanks
               Jenni | sneaking in very quietly......sorry to be late.
      Dmi's crickett | <laughs too> why not?
              marieM | i think when you are in aLDR you want so much to 
                     | happen in a weekend.. and my
              marieM | emotions are running rampent.. i often don't see 
                     | when i am exhuasted or
              marieM | shaking..
            Old Wolf | the fact that some do not establish safe words and 
                     | procedures prior to
            Old Wolf | "engaging", scares me... at least for those people 
                     | I am concerned
      *Night Spirit* | marie sweety I hate to tell you happens even in a 
                     | 24/7 relationship where you
      *Night Spirit* | live and work together
      *Night Spirit* | OK OW---why use safe words?
              marieM | i am glad to hear that NS.. <S>
            Old Wolf | as a point of establishing the subs needs....
                  TI | thats the second most important thing NS
            Old Wolf | note I didn't say limits
      Dmi's crickett | why use safe words?........because that would be a 
                     | *sane* thing to do
      *Night Spirit* | bTW they are using the dungeon area (and our new 
                     | gurney) for pictures, and GrPa
      *Night Spirit* | is taking some for our site--that is why he is NOT 
                     | here
            Old Wolf | someone entered in D/s last night and needed to 
                     | talk about that concept....
      Dmi's crickett | so each would know a peaking or reached limit, to 
                     | be able to back off......
            ~wrysilk | a reg, OW?
            Old Wolf | no... a newbie
            Old Wolf | crickett has hit the point
  Northern Gentleman | so this is where everyone is hidiing at
            Old Wolf | to know when someone is approaching their limit
      *Night Spirit* | ok is it safe to play with someone you have known a 
                     | VERY long time and played
      *Night Spirit* | with alot and NOT use safewords?
      Dmi's crickett | no , NS...i dont agree
            Old Wolf | if the sub has "ENTRUSTED" herself to her 
                     | Master.... the communication needs to
            Old Wolf | be open and continued
      *Night Spirit* | ok crickett why?
      Dmi's crickett | i think there should always be a safe word......
   Master of Leisure | Safewords should be used at all 
                     | times....NS.......in my
   Master of Leisure | opinion......
      Dmi's crickett | even if it is not used
         <MS' EBE> M | I agree with MOL!!!!
      Dmi's crickett | for safety reasons
            ~wrysilk | <sitting quietly>
            Old Wolf | agreed with crickett
      Dmi's crickett | even if you have been with someone for a very long 
                     | time........ things...like
      Dmi's crickett | wants and desires can change....
         <MS' EBE> M | In my case, MS is FAR more experienced no
         <MS' EBE> M | matter that we have known each other a long
         <MS' EBE> M | time...that isn't the point...
      *Night Spirit* | ok if we trust the Dom/me why not trust them to 
                     | know if and when we have had
      *Night Spirit* | enough?
   Master of Leisure | katie entrusts herself to me,,,,,,and I know her 
                     | limits well,,,,but
   Master of Leisure | I still want her to use her safeword if she feels 
                     | like it
      Dmi's crickett | so a safe word is needed
            Old Wolf | I guess it is a matter of what your reasons are for 
                     | entering the "scene".... is
            Old Wolf | it a contest of wills for you... or is it an 
                     | expression of affection taken to a
            Old Wolf | different form
              marieM | but i have to say i rarely see safewords used.. do 
                     | any of you hold back using
              marieM | them.. or are most scenes usually within the 
                     | framework that they all work that
              marieM | well?
      Dmi's crickett | because that is not *sane* NS...................... 
                     | you still need them even if
      Dmi's crickett | you dont use them
               Bunny | Hi all!
      *Night Spirit* | I use safewords, not alot but time to time--just 
                     | sometimes I need to relax a
      *Night Spirit* | few seconds to catch my breath
         <MS' EBE> M | Yes, Crickett!!
              marieM | i agree crickett....
               Jenni | <,agrees with crickett
      Dmi's crickett | to me a safe word...is a way to say....slow 
                     | down...let me catch up
            Old Wolf | presicely NS.... it doesn't have to mean STOP 
                     | forever... it should mean
            Old Wolf | STOP....now
      *Night Spirit* | how important is communicating your thoughts and 
                     | feelings between Dom/me and
      *Night Spirit* | sub?
   Master of Leisure | well stated,,,OW......and that is usually what 
                     | happens in a
   Master of Leisure | scene.....
         <MS' EBE> M | Have used safe word once in like a year
         <MS' EBE> M | but...happy it is there if needed..besides, why
         <MS' EBE> M | allow a session to go on when it is no longer
         <MS' EBE> M | enjoyable??
      Dmi's crickett | how important?
            Old Wolf | some people use two words... similar to a yellow 
                     | and red traffic light (did I
            Old Wolf | stoop to that analogy?)
                  TI | thats the begining of the trust NS
      Dmi's crickett | it is the base for it
   Master of Leisure | it is very important,,,,NS......
            Old Wolf | NS... communication is the foundation upon which 
                     | trust is built
              marieM | yes Old Wolf a lot of people use that.. especially 
                     | with new partners.. it's a
              marieM | common one so you can't forget or miss it
      Dmi's crickett | you have to be open, and honest with your Dom
      Dmi's crickett | or sub
      Dmi's crickett | both have to be open and honest
            Old Wolf | THAT is a big concern for me
            Old Wolf | especially with a new sub
            Old Wolf | who may be so anious to please you that she will 
                     | force herself beyond her limit
      *Night Spirit* | as GrPa says---I never took mind reading at Dom 
                     | school
               Jenni | <g> NS
            Old Wolf | we need to keep in mind that this is not a race... 
                     | more like a dance
      Dmi's crickett | that is how both begin to build the trust that D/s 
                     | (which is a concept) is
      Dmi's crickett | built upon
      Dmi's crickett | that is true OW
      *Night Spirit* | ok where do we start being open and honest--before 
                     | we first meet, when we meet,
      *Night Spirit* | before first play--when should you spill it all?
      Dmi's crickett | in the beginning NS
            Old Wolf | when we dance, we don't dance faster to get to the 
                     | end of a song!  so, we
            Old Wolf | should not needlessly speed the scene along to its 
                     | conclusion... we have a
            Old Wolf | responsibility to not overwhelm the sub... beyond 
                     | her abilities
      Dmi's crickett | you have to start at the first
               Jenni | <<have tried being open & honest from Day 
                     | 1.......and continue every day....
                  TI | before you meet NS...........
      *Night Spirit* | OW I like that thought
      Dmi's crickett | or you cant start at all
      Dmi's crickett | ooohh <waves to Jenni <s>>
               Jenni | ~~~~~ crickett <<ss>>
      *Night Spirit* | ok now here is a tought question
               Jenni | sometimes I find it very, very hard to be open....
                  TI | you want that person to know ALL about you with no 
                     | suprises
               Jenni | and vulnerable.....
            Old Wolf | <smiling at NS... that is why we are here NS... to 
                     | facilitate the means of
            Old Wolf | communication... >
      *Night Spirit* | why the hell are we D/s and not vanilla?
      Dmi's crickett | it is a piece of us....that is inside of us 
                     | NS....that is a part of us
      *Night Spirit* | were we born this way crickett?
            Old Wolf | Jenni... vulnerability is delicious.... it enhances 
                     | the flavor of the
            Old Wolf | relationship
               Jenni | nodding at crickett........a part that was missing 
                     | 'til D/s filled the void
      Dmi's crickett | this is want i believe.....every relationship is 
                     | D/s, just some can admit to
      Dmi's crickett | what it is....and some can not
               Jenni | yes, OW, and thankfully.....Sir Gault has a great 
                     | shoulder for me to hide in
               Jenni | when I am forcing myself to speak beyond my comfort 
                     | zone <g>
      Dmi's crickett | in all asspect of animal life
         night nurse | i agree with OW
      *Night Spirit* | were we born D/s or is it learned behaviour and why 
                     | are so many of us coming
      *Night Spirit* | into it late in life (after 1st marriage)?
      Dmi's crickett | there is a Dom...and there is a sub..
            Old Wolf | Jenni... yo just described the truest meaning of a 
                     | D/s relationship (imho)
         night nurse | vulnerability is a gift to be cherished
      Dmi's crickett | no, NS...i think it is a part of life
      Dmi's crickett | it is always there
      *Night Spirit* | hiya night nurse :)
      Dmi's crickett | just some can see it, some can not
               Jenni | <s> @ OW
         night nurse | Hi NS
      *Night Spirit* | ok why do you say this crickett?
      Dmi's crickett | <thinking> ....i suppose it is because i have 
                     | raised (like many) too many
      Dmi's crickett | animals....and at my age seen too many 
                     | relationships..... to me... i see it
      Dmi's crickett | everywhere....
      Dmi's crickett | in everyday life with humans
      Dmi's crickett | husbands wifes
      Dmi's crickett | pecking order with chicldrem
      Dmi's crickett | oopss
      Dmi's crickett | children
      *Night Spirit* | ok how do you all feel about what crickett said?
      Dmi's crickett | it is everywhere
            Old Wolf | <was thinking "new species?">
      Dmi's crickett | gee thanks OW
            Old Wolf | just kidding... we all read typos marie <soft smile>
         <MS' EBE> M | pecking order with chickens??  sorry Crick,
         <MS' EBE> M | couldn't help it--and I agree with ya!!
      *Night Spirit* | well I started tying up barbie long ago, tieing 
                     | boys up and pantsing them and
      *Night Spirit* | leaving them behind the hay loft
               Jenni | I believe for me, it is part of who I am.......
      Dmi's crickett | insects are the same.......... i mean...D/s is a 
                     | concept...away to describe
      Dmi's crickett | relationships
      Dmi's crickett | <laffen at Ebe>
               Jenni | always has been, but it was denied for a lot of 
                     | years.
      *Night Spirit* | did we all do D/s as children?
         night nurse | thinking>  isn;t it something that might have been 
                     | locked away..taboo even as
         night nurse | we grew up...and then like a lightening flashes in 
                     | the sky changing the
         night nurse | atmosphere ..we change but some little thing...the 
                     | right person ..the right
         night nurse | time...
       MoL's Katie J | no, I did not.
               Jenni | I did......but I was the Domme then <g>
      Dmi's crickett | it is a pecking order
         <MS' EBE> M | I did--had an older sister and her
         <MS' EBE> M | friends..well...they were little teenage
         <MS' EBE> M | dommes..REALLY!!  <s>
               Ellen | hi..........
      Dmi's crickett | D/S...is not sexual.......
      *Night Spirit* | nurse did you D/s as a child or only as an 
                     | adult---Katie never tied up barbie?
         night nurse | i tied up alot of things as a child....smiling
      Dmi's crickett | hell i tied barbie up
      Dmi's crickett | plus the dogs
      Dmi's crickett | and my brother too
       MoL's Katie J | I had had sex for 8 years before I had an orgasm 
                     | ... and that was when I was
       MoL's Katie J | tied up for the first time.
               Ellen | hey.......you guys have to explain
               Ellen | this to me........
         night nurse | just never related it to how i feel now
       MoL's Katie J | no, I didn't like Barbie
      Dmi's crickett | no no no
      Dmi's crickett | katie...no
             BADgirl | hello??
             SNICKER | hello
                 τΏτ | hi
      Dmi's crickett | opppss mis read that....sorry
      *Night Spirit* | Ellen this is a Q and A period in Silken ties 
                     | asking questions about D/s
      *Night Spirit* | lifestyle
               Jenni | there is something about the first time tied up, 
                     | isn't there katie?
               Jenni | <g>.........It was when I found out what freedom 
                     | really was.
               Ellen | Night......and I repeat.....lost as
               Ellen | hell here........
      *Night Spirit* | Jenni I agree with that
            Old Wolf | ah Jenni... well said
         night nurse | i would agree with that Jenni
      *Night Spirit* | Ellen we are discussing Dominations and submission, 
                     | bondage disapline and sado
      *Night Spirit* | masochism
       MoL's Katie J | Something let me let go then, I guess :)
      Dmi's crickett | bondage is a great release........ you have someone 
                     | else taken control....doing
      Dmi's crickett | things to you...that you would never dream of 
                     | asking them to do to you
     *The Inspector* | Ellen   sit back and watch/listen.........we may 
                     | all learn something
               Jenni | nodding......yyyyyyyep <S>
            Old Wolf | the responsibility was taken from you
      *Night Spirit* | that's the word crickett---a release
      Dmi's crickett | thats it OQ!
               Ellen | Geez........
            Old Wolf | you could only react... did not have to lead
      Dmi's crickett | damn OW
      Dmi's crickett | stupid typos <muttering>
      Dmi's crickett | yeah release
               Ellen | <---totally lost here
         night nurse | you are totally free to just feel.....to just be...
             SNICKER | u think ur lost
            Old Wolf | too often subs are actually strong people whom 
                     | others depend on too much
      Dmi's crickett | shhhh sinicker
               Jenni | exactly, Old Wolf......exactly
            Old Wolf | they have no or little opportunity to be free of 
                     | responsibility
             SNICKER | why u ssshh me
               Ellen | if someone tries to tie me.....he
               Ellen | or she would die.....<s>
         <GJ>rebecca | very good point OW
      Dmi's crickett | yes OW
            Old Wolf | it affects them in subtle ways....
               Jenni | your loss, Ellen
       MoL's Katie J | it's only done with consent, Ellen
     *The Inspector* | then I guess Ellen  might be Domme
     *The Inspector* | LOL
               Ellen | geez. Jen.......
      Dmi's crickett | well, Ellen...you dont know what you are missing
            Old Wolf | a good Master can understand this and release her 
                     | fro those responsibilities in
            Old Wolf | a totally satisyfing way
   Master of Leisure | lafffin @ Ellen.....you might want another room.....
         <GJ>rebecca | lol
      *Night Spirit* | Ellen most of us here are into Domaniance and 
                     | submission we give control up to
      *Night Spirit* | another, this can includes bondage, spankings and 
                     | pain but not always
               zilli | <pssst  ellen....c'mere hon....>
   Master of Leisure | chucklin
      *Night Spirit* | <--fanning self suddenly>
         <GJ>rebecca | <s>
      Dmi's crickett | <laffs at zilli>
               Ellen | OK.........damn.......
               zilli | <if you were offended by that orgasm joke i told?  
                     | come into club maxi and have a drink <g>>
      *Night Spirit* | ok someone said D/s is NOT sex--ok what is it?
             SNICKER | aahhhh i understand now
               Ellen | zills.....what the hell are you
               Ellen | doing in here, sis?  LOL
         <MS' EBE> M | why MOL???  Maybe Ellen just a domme--guess
         <MS' EBE> M | not...<s>
      Dmi's crickett | i said it NS....to me it is a concept
      Dmi's crickett | a way to describe relationships
               zilli | ellen, i like these folk....i don't spit at the 
                     | notion of bein tied.....so come on darlin, club 
                     | maxi. free drinks <wink>>
   Master of Leisure | you gotta have a clue first.....EBE.....lol
      *Night Spirit* | ok crickett tell us more
               Ellen | Ellen is female human
               Ellen | being........
               zilli | <gettin rope to drag her outta here>
               Jenni | Jenni is a female human being......who thinks D/s 
                     | is incredible <s>
      *Night Spirit* | Ellen I am a female human being I live with my 
                     | hubby, who chains me to bed and
      *Night Spirit* | releases all my fustrations and makes me beauitful
   Master of Leisure | MoL is male human being....loves to use his crop, 
                     | paddles
         <MS' EBE> M | sorry Ellen, this IS kind of a "special" room...
   Master of Leisure | and whips and rope.....<w>
     *The Inspector* | and D/s is not for everyone Ellen........nothing 
                     | wrong with that
      Dmi's crickett | <thinking>
            Old Wolf | Ellen.... would you be surprised to learn tht we 
                     | PRIZE your vulnerabiity and
            Old Wolf | humanity
               Jenni | lol MoL
               zilli | <ellen, really....i'm tryin to help ya here darlin>
            Old Wolf | that we see what we are discussing as a means of 
                     | not humiliating you but
            Old Wolf | helping you learn more about yourself
      *Night Spirit* | our relationships are based on trust, consent and 
                     | communication to us we are
      *Night Spirit* | VERY special
               Ellen | good night.......you guys have
               Ellen | fun......I am outta here.......
     *The Inspector* | bye Ellen
            Old Wolf | expand your vision for a moment Ellen and 
                     | understand that this is about needs
               Jenni | <g>
            Old Wolf | and desires
      *Night Spirit* | Night Ellen
         <GJ>rebecca | it is the most enriching relationship I have ever 
                     | encountered
      Dmi's crickett | D/s  to me ( and please try to remember this is my 
                     | opinion) is a concept of
      Dmi's crickett | life's relationships....sex does not have to be a 
                     | *part* of it....the sex...is
      Dmi's crickett | more (once again, my opinion) extra...or more BDSM
   Master of Leisure | good night,,ellen.....it was  nice meeting you..<s>
               zilli | <sneakin out the back door but lurking <g>>
      *Night Spirit* | ok back to what crickett was saying D/s is NOT 
                     | sex--but a concept
            Old Wolf | <one way or another, that pedantry of mine was 
                     | going to WORK!....
            Old Wolf | self-satisfied grin!>
         <GJ>rebecca | lol
      *Night Spirit* | so I assume we can have D/s without EVER having sex?
      Dmi's crickett | you can Dom or Domme some one with out having sex
               Jenni | Pardon Old Wolf?
         <GJ>rebecca | NO!
         <GJ>rebecca | lol
         <GJ>rebecca | just kidding
      Dmi's crickett | in my opinion you can , NS
         <MS' EBE> M | Oh geez..been online ages and feel silly buit,
         <MS' EBE> M | Crick, what is BDSM??
      *Night Spirit* | bondage, disapline sado-masochism
      Dmi's crickett | thank Ebe.... <shakes her head>
         <MS' EBE> M | thank EBE???
      *Night Spirit* | I didn't see sex in that
      Dmi's crickett | D/s is a description og relationships...
         <MS' EBE> M | you're welcome  Crickett!!  LOLOLOLOL
      Dmi's crickett | gee leave my typos alone Ebe<laffen>
      *Night Spirit* | ok crickett what description?
      Dmi's crickett | og=of
         <MS' EBE> M | You deserved that one, Cricky!! <s>
      Dmi's crickett | in the way that people think, or feel NS....about 
                     | different things
      Dmi's crickett | yeah yeah yeah Ebe
         <MS' EBE> M | NS' simple answer was sufficient..thanks NS
         <MS' EBE> M | <s>
         <GJ>rebecca | it is not only about sex......the mind and spirit 
                     | release of this concept is
         <GJ>rebecca | the most gratifying part
      Dmi's crickett | D/s is more mental
      Dmi's crickett | not physical
         <GJ>rebecca | at least for me.......it's like someone said 
                     | earlier.....
         night nurse | patting crickett on the back...yesss.
      *Night Spirit* | ok rebecca says it is NOT ONLY sex, and crickett 
                     | feels you can have D/s without
      *Night Spirit* | sex--how doe you others feel?
      Dmi's crickett | for if that werent true....there would not be a D/s 
                     | online community
         <GJ>rebecca | subs are typically in "control" and strong 
                     | personalities
      Dmi's crickett | ^5 nn
               Jenni | I understand the concept that you can have D/s 
                     | without sex..........
               Jenni | never have.......
      *Night Spirit* | crickett VERY good point
               Jenni | don't want to!
               Jenni | <like the sex part!>
               Jenni | <g>
         night nurse | for me it has been an awakening of my mind..my 
                     | desires...my inner soul..just
         night nurse | all of me
         <MS' EBE> M | I do NOT understand that concept...HELP???
      Dmi's crickett | thats something different Jenni <chuckling>
         <GJ>rebecca | YES.........nurse!
               Jenni | <g>
      Dmi's crickett | <laffen>
      *Night Spirit* | I know many female Domme  have subs they play with 
                     | that they NEVER have sex
      *Night Spirit* | with---but they do let the sub masterbate (yes 
                     | spelling sucks)
      Dmi's crickett | <huggss NS....as my spelling ALWAYS sucks>
       MoL's Katie J | I see .. they use the same definition of sex that 
                     | Clinton does.
       MoL's Katie J | <sorry, couldn't resist>
         <GJ>rebecca | lol........Katie
               Jenni | lol Katie
      Dmi's crickett | what dont you get Ebe?
      *Night Spirit* | lol Katie sis
      Dmi's crickett | am i still here?
         <MS' EBE> M | Yes, NS...that is true...UmmmCrickett--what is
         <MS' EBE> M | D/s without sex??  I mean--just one person
         <MS' EBE> M | controlling another in general??? don't get it??
      Dmi's crickett | yep
      *Night Spirit* | yes crickett horrible lag today
      Dmi's crickett | no no no..... D/s is more mental (to me) Ebe....
      Dmi's crickett | the sex part is extra
   Master of Leisure | EBE..it is mental, psychological, emotional control 
                     | for the
   Master of Leisure | Dom and release for the sub.......and yes it can 
                     | involve sex if
   Master of Leisure | so desired
      Dmi's crickett | that is why i say it is a concept
         <GJ>rebecca | for me......the joining of my relationship both 
                     | mentally and physically with my
         <GJ>rebecca | Dom was parallel
      *Night Spirit* | EBE that is her point--she feels D/s is about 
                     | control, trust, communication,
      *Night Spirit* | release pain but it can be alive and well without 
                     | sex--sex is the icing
         night nurse | i went to a catholic school for eight years...grade 
                     | school...it took me long
         night nurse | time to find the real me...to be me...to open my 
                     | mind...to trust some on
         night nurse | without having any doubts...
      Dmi's crickett | yep yep yep NS!
         <MS' EBE> M | I see, but was hearing Crickett to say D/s doesnt
         <MS' EBE> M | have to involve sex...??
         <MS' EBE> M | That's where I went,,,what???
      *Night Spirit* | ebe it doesn't have to
      Dmi's crickett | it doesnt have to Ebe....
   Master of Leisure | looks at nn...that is because the nuns were the
   Master of Leisure | dominants..nn
            Old Wolf | hell night nurse.... 16 years of catholic education 
                     | here.. including the
            Old Wolf | JESUITS!  <you want to talk kinks?>
      Dmi's crickett | it is extra!
         <GJ>rebecca | <<gigglin>>
               Jenni | lol OW
      Dmi's crickett | brb
         night nurse | it took me awhile to figure that out to OW
         <GJ>rebecca | k crickett
         <MS' EBE> M | Then--ya think like plantation owners in the
         <MS' EBE> M | south were into D/s ??? The term is getting to
         <MS' EBE> M | be to broad!!
         <MS' EBE> M | too
      *Night Spirit* | ok now any questions or last words or 
                     | statements--btw next week's CO is on
      *Night Spirit* | dungeon safety which we will do while I torture my 
                     | newly collared sub
         <GJ>rebecca | <<gotta scoot.........Thank you.....I learned a 
                     | great deal!
      *Night Spirit* | Night rebecca
         <GJ>rebecca | <s> NS goodnite
      *Night Spirit* | no ebe that is slavery---the slaves did NOT give 
                     | consent to be slaves
      Dmi's crickett | what Ebe?
       MoL's Katie J | good night, rebecca
               Jenni | Thank you Night Spirit.....it was very interesting.
         <GJ>rebecca | goodnite Katie ,<s>
   Master of Leisure | nite...rebecca
      *Night Spirit* | D/s is about consent, control, trust communication, 
                     | pain, bondage--but all that
      *Night Spirit* | can be achieved without sex
      Dmi's crickett | you are talking about something where one half of 
                     | the party had no choice
      Dmi's crickett | period...
         <GJ>rebecca | <s> Master of Leisure.......stay out of trouble.....
       MoL's Katie J | Thanks, Big Sis .. you did a great job :-)
      *Night Spirit* | Anytime Jenni thanks for comming
   Master of Leisure | lafffffin.....i usually do...rebecca..<w>
         <MS' EBE> M | Well , to me, D/s is a sexual description of life
         <MS' EBE> M | not generic--I don't get D/s without sex!!
      Dmi's crickett | <-----------------Ebe look at what NS said
         <GJ>rebecca | ya..ya..ya
      *Night Spirit* | EBE my sub is married, he submits to me, I torture 
                     | him WE HAVE NO SEX
      *Night Spirit* | got it?
         <GJ>rebecca | <<curtsies to the Dom/Dommes in the room
      Dmi's crickett | and Ebe....your Domme lives across the pond...right?
         <MS' EBE> M | okay--I get that but...okay, I get it..
         <GJ>rebecca | winks @ subbies
   Master of Leisure | easy one tonite,,,NS......good moderation.......my 
                     | sistah in the
   Master of Leisure | land of D/s
         night nurse | it is the mental stimulation...the mind being 
                     | aroused
         <MS' EBE> M | Yes she does, Crickett
      *Night Spirit* | he is my sub, he obeys me, he let's me to anything 
                     | to him (as long as I leave
      *Night Spirit* | no marks) yet we do not have sex
      Dmi's crickett | so it is more mental...... right Ebe?
      *Night Spirit* | EBE it is what YOU make it, anyway you can
      *Night Spirit* | hugs MoL
      Dmi's crickett | she contrls you mentally more so than physical
      Dmi's crickett | ooppss controls
         <MS' EBE> M | Okay--I get it...but NS,,your sessions DO involve
         <MS' EBE> M | sex--that is silly to say they don't!!
   Master of Leisure | hugggs...NS....<S>
      Dmi's crickett | i dont think we said that Ebe
         night nurse | nite MOL
      Dmi's crickett | i just said to me D/s is more of a concept
   Master of Leisure | nite....nn...<S>
         <MS' EBE> M | okay Crickett---I get what you are talking about...
      Dmi's crickett | ok.....Ebe <s>
      *Night Spirit* | EBE in some ways he gets hard I touch the damn 
                     | thing with an electric
         night nurse | a state of being...
      *Night Spirit* | flyswatter.  But since we are only together once a 
                     | month--he has to do alot of
      *Night Spirit* | online torture--and that of course has no sex
   Master of Leisure | it is more than a concept.....crickie.....it is a 
                     | way of living for
   Master of Leisure | many of us.....
      *Night Spirit* | OK am sorry gotta run hugs all and thank you very 
                     | much for comming
********** 10/11/98  6:04 PM End logging Silken Ties.