Real Life 24/7 subs/Doms vs. Players

********** 9/6/98  5:01 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
       MoL's Katie J | lovely, Michael <G>
      Lord Excalibur | yes it is nice isn't it
      *Night Spirit* | <--waves to the crowd
       MoL's Katie J | good evening, big Sis
      Lord Excalibur | hello NS
      *Night Spirit* | sorry a wee bit late had to untie the submissive
       MoL's Katie J | hello Monique
             Monique | hello
      *Night Spirit* | hugs little sis and greetings Lord E
          Michael P. | hi 'n hugs NS
          Michael P. | hi Monique
      *Night Spirit* | hugs Michael
      Lord Excalibur | hello Monique
             Monique | hello all
          Michael P. | shakes LE
       MoL's Katie J | good evening, Master <kiss>
      Lord Excalibur | greetings Michael
   Master of Leisure | evening....my little one......<smooch>
          Michael P. | hi effy, and Shakes MoL
   Master of Leisure | Shakes,,Michael...
      Lord Excalibur | hello MoL
      *Night Spirit* | hugs effy
   Master of Leisure | ahhh..the innocent one..hugggs..effy
   Master of Leisure | Hello....Lord E.....good to see you
      *Night Spirit* | happy holiday to those who get tomorrow off 
                     | <grumble grumble> I do not
       MoL's Katie J | effy? she won the adult trivia on Friday
   Master of Leisure | HIya,,,NS...huggs..sweetie
          Shadow (f) | hello......
      *Night Spirit* | hugs MoL
      Lord Excalibur | andyou MoL
       MoL's Katie J | so not so innocent .. unless she reads a lot <G>
       MoL's Katie J | hello, Shadow <S>
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Hugggs NS et all
          Michael P. | brb, wanna check some stuff
       MoL's Katie J | hugggggs, nikki
   Master of Leisure | and she is very innocent...too..knows little
   Master of Leisure | about D/s.....cough
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Huggs Katie....<s>
      *Night Spirit* | hugs nikki
      Lord Excalibur | you will have to excuse typos. Iam using LA's 
                     | machine
                lucy | hi everybody nikki you beat me<pout>
   Master of Leisure | Huggggs...nikki...<s>
      *Night Spirit* | we are all innocent
       MoL's Katie J | hiya lucy!
      Lord Excalibur | yeah right NS
     ~nikki~  (busy) | LOL lucy.......<grin>
       MoL's Katie J | if she beat you, did you enjoy it?
                lucy | hi Katie
   Master of Leisure | hello..lucy...
                lucy | hi MoL
      *Night Spirit* | let me do a quick check on my subbie
      *Night Spirit* | brb
             Monique | Well thank you all for the warm welcome going to
             Monique | go tak ecare
       MoL's Katie J | I guess she was serious when she said she had to 
                     | untie the subbie .. lol
   Master of Leisure | hello.monique....
      Lord Excalibur | if I have missed any hellos, heres a overall hello
   Master of Leisure | goodbye,,monique..
   Master of Leisure | who were you ..monique
       MoL's Katie J | she's gone, Master
   Master of Leisure | sensitive one
   Master of Leisure | yes,,my love ,,I know
       MoL's Katie J | <curling up at Master's feet>
   Master of Leisure | attaching the leash to the link on her
   Master of Leisure | collar.....
   Master of Leisure | lifting her chin
       MoL's Katie J | hello, Squiggles
      *Night Spirit* | ok kids I am back
       MoL's Katie J | hugggs, neysa
           Squiggles | Hi Katie
               neysa | huggggsss katie
      *Night Spirit* | todays topic is 24/7  those who live the lifestyle 
                     | always vs those who do it on
      *Night Spirit* | weekends, or play parties
          Michael P. | back, hi's sssshhh
               neysa | or bedroom only?
      *Night Spirit* | is there a difference in who these folks are and 
                     | their commitment
      *Night Spirit* | yes neysa
      *Night Spirit* | so let's grab our first victim
      *Night Spirit* | Michael
          Michael P. | what?
       MoL's Katie J | commitment to each other, or to D/s in general?
      Lord Excalibur | yeah leave me alone I'm on vacation <s>
      *Night Spirit* | are you 24/7 or just a weekend D/ser
          Michael P. | victim?  living dangerous aren't you
               neysa | <S>
      *Night Spirit* | yes love I am
  Electricblueyes> M | <pushing in beside lucy>
      *Night Spirit* | D/s in general sis
      *Night Spirit* | Michael are you 24/7 or just when you can?
          Michael P. | I live with a novice domme, she doesn't domme me 
                     | (cept by being bitchy) so no
          Michael P. | on the 24/7, but in the frameworkd of my 
                     | relationship with marie and through
          Michael P. | the computer and many regular visits, it feels like 
                     | 24/7
               neysa | that is a real tough call NS
      *Night Spirit* | Michael do you feel there is a difference between 
                     | being 24/7 and not?
               neysa | some people may feel like their personal code is a 
                     | 24/7 thing
          Michael P. | I think if you're going to imagine it being 
                     | something like keeping someone in
          Michael P. | chains all the time you're delusional
               neysa | but for one reason or another, like a vanilla 
                     | spouse, they are forced to hide
               neysa | that part from the SO
      *Night Spirit* | they make a lifestyle how they wish to, some call 
                     | it 24/7 some do not
          Michael P. | I see 24/7 as beein more like having the pot on 
                     | simmer and my hand on the knob
          Michael P. | to bring it to instand boil
          Michael P. | can't spell yet, just woke up
          Michael P. | no coffee yet
      *Night Spirit* | Michael I think that is a good explaination
       MoL's Katie J | the mind set being the pertinent detail, Michael?
          Michael P. | the mind set yes Katie, there is never a moment 
                     | with marie in person when I
          Michael P. | didn't feel I was her dom or her equal
      *Night Spirit* | neysa then  is one with a vanilla spouse living the 
                     | D/s lifestyle 24/7 or only
      *Night Spirit* | at playtime?
          Michael P. | I could push buttons at will, but I took out the 
                     | trash
      *Night Spirit* | MoL do you agree with this?
               neysa | they may not be living the lifestyle, but they may 
                     | feel the pull 24/7
   Master of Leisure | depends on how you define,,,24/7...NS
               neysa | I think you first need to define lifestyle
   Master of Leisure | if you mean that 24/7 is having the Dom
   Master of Leisure | and sub..living together the whole
   Master of Leisure | time,,,then most of us here do not live that
   Master of Leisure | lifestyle..
      *Night Spirit* | MoL each of use define it differently, does one 
                     | have to live together with a
      *Night Spirit* | sub chained to the bed and naked and kneeling 
                     | always, or if on command the sub
      *Night Spirit* | is there....what do you define as 24/7 MoL?
      *Night Spirit* | or is it MoL no matter when or where you are in 
                     | control of your sub?
       GrandPaDeSade | Hello all. Sorry I'm late. It was NS's fault though.
      *Night Spirit* | even miles apart?
          Michael P. | shake GPDS
   Master of Leisure | 24/7 to me,,,,NS....is a living relationship in
   Master of Leisure | a house with your submissive...
      *Night Spirit* | my fault? hugs darlin'
               neysa | NS, your comment was "living the D/s lifestyle 24/7"
       GrandPaDeSade | Shakes MP
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I suppose my situation is different as both me and 
                     | my hubby as subs.......but
     ~nikki~  (busy) | we each have our own Dom & Domme's.......<s>     It 
                     | works well.....but not 24/7
     ~nikki~  (busy) | as you would probably see it.......(as a couple per 
                     | se)
               neysa | I personally felt like I was a 24/7 sub before I 
                     | was living with anyone
       GrandPaDeSade | Your fault NS. Your submissive kept me.
   Master of Leisure | as far as a 24/7 mind set......I feel that you
   Master of Leisure | can have that with your sub in a LDR.....
          Michael P. | I hear the same from marie neysa, she feels it 
                     | everyday whether I'm there or
          Michael P. | not, her submision nor her joy in it don't get 
                     | turned on with the computer
      *Night Spirit* | ok can you be a sub 24/7 with no Dom/me neysa?
               neysa | LOL I was
     ~nikki~  (busy) | LOL neysa
               neysa | I tend to defer in everything I do
               neysa | I would not be good in an upper manag,ment position
   Master of Leisure | katie and I have a 24/7 mind set........she
   Master of Leisure | feels me every day,,,,whether I am there or
   Master of Leisure | not....as i feel her presence......
          Michael P. | is that submission or not being assertive though?
      *Night Spirit* | so what makes a person a 24/7 and what doesn't--how 
                     | can this be defined, and is
      *Night Spirit* | there a difference in the lifestyle?
               neysa | Yes
               neysa | there is
               neysa | There are people who enjoy a bit of slap and tickle 
                     | in the bedroom, but I
               neysa | would not call that a 24/7 D/s relationship
      *Night Spirit* | ok neysa what is it?
       GrandPaDeSade | She feels you every day MOL? That sounds like fun 
                     | for both of you. (Yes, I do
       GrandPaDeSade | know what you ment.
               neysa | I know to my core that I am a sub
      *Night Spirit* | ok are slap and tickle folks even D/sers?
   Master of Leisure | grins at GPDS....we have a very close
   Master of Leisure | relationship...GPDS.......
               neysa | in a very brief sense of the term
       MoL's Katie J | yes, Master, that is true .. you are a part of 
                     | every moment of my life .. and I
       MoL's Katie J | discuss all with you.
               neysa | I have always lived my life trying to please others
   Master of Leisure | not in my opinion,,,,NS...
      *Night Spirit* | ah MoL explain
       GrandPaDeSade | There is no hard and fast line you cross ove that 
                     | makes you a D/s'er os there?
       GrandPaDeSade | is=os
   Master of Leisure | anyone can tickle or playfully slap someone
   Master of Leisure | in the bedroom or out of it,,,,,,that is not a
   Master of Leisure | D/s lifestyle...at all
               neysa | What IS a D/ser?
                Floh | hi there....
               neysa | I think that was NS questoin, was tehre a 
                     | difference in 24/7 and play
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I would think so, GPDS........psychologically 
                     | speaking anyway....
          Michael P. | I don't know if it must be D/s er.  I've seen men 
                     | and woman who in their
   Master of Leisure | not only psychologically,,nikki,,but
   Master of Leisure | emotionally and mentally......
          Michael P. | relationships submit to the other quite honestly 
                     | and completely although it
          Michael P. | isn't necessarily one involving a sexual 
                     | submission.  Awareness and I believe
          Michael P. | the sexual element are the line that separates the 
                     | two
               neysa | So does D/s HAVE to involve a sexual submission?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Yes, MoL.....that also.......
   Master of Leisure | only if the Dom and sub desire it.......it can
   Master of Leisure | be mainly mental.....
      *Night Spirit* | ok if you are submissive or Dom/me without a 
                     | partner, and are this role 24/7
      *Night Spirit* | are you really that different from let's say 
                     | someone who meets monthly at play
      *Night Spirit* | parties, or different from one who likes spanking 
                     | with sex?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Not in every case, neysa....
   Master of Leisure | does take  a lot of fun out of it,,tho.....lol
          Michael P. | My children were submissive to me as their father, 
                     | an authority figure, I was
          Michael P. | submissive to higher authority in the military, I 
                     | certainly didn't feel it was
          Michael P. | D.
      *Night Spirit* | neysa my submissive and I do not share sex, but we 
                     | share pain
       GrandPaDeSade | MP, it wasn't consentual either.
               neysa | fair enough
               neysa | I guess it is all very subjective
   Master of Leisure | D/s lifestyle..without sex.....NS.....with pain as 
                     | the
   Master of Leisure | focus....point taken
          Michael P. | extreme examples perhaps, but how about a wife who 
                     | either by choice, religion
          Michael P. | or personality makeup is submissive to her husband 
                     | and family, that may be
          Michael P. | "submissive" but itsin't D/s, it could also be 
                     | submissive in sexual matters as
          Michael P. | well.  I feel there is a realization and desire to 
                     | make it a sexual and to know
          Michael P. | that that submission is what excites and satisfies
          Michael P. | I consented to join the military GPDS
       GrandPaDeSade | Ture MP, but once there your choices were VERY 
                     | limited.
          Michael P. | of course if their is a desire for the trappings, 
                     | collars, toys,
          Michael P. | "Master/Mistress" that is a pretty good clue its 
                     | D/s too
      *Night Spirit* | Michael good point.....so is there a difference 
                     | between those who play once in
      *Night Spirit* | a while and those who live it, breath it and claim 
                     | to be 24/7?
          Michael P. | yes GP
          Michael P. | of course NS
      *Night Spirit* | ok Michael what is it?
          Michael P. | but there has to be a realized sexual or 
                     | phychological understanding.  A Quaker
          Michael P. | wife is submissive, the relationship is submissive, 
                     | the concept of D/s is also
          Michael P. | there but it isn't kink driven
               neysa | but what defines kink?
          Michael P. | I'll answer that as soon as I figure out the 
                     | meaning of life neysa
               neysa | is kink something that "good christians" frown upon?
      Lord Excalibur | anything that is not totally accepted by the 
                     | population
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Okay (jumping in with both feet into the lions 
                     | cage).....I really don't thin
     ~nikki~  (busy) | you can call it 24/7 *unless* you are living 
                     | together.......how else can your
     ~nikki~  (busy) | see the looks....expressions......etc????
               neysa | LOL LE, then almost ANYTHING is kinky somewhere
     ~nikki~  (busy) | IMHO< you *need* that contact....
      Lord Excalibur | could well be neysa
      *Night Spirit* | ok Michael let's say I am married, I am sub by 
                     | choice, my marriage is very
      *Night Spirit* | vanilla, I meet a Dom once a month we go to Dungeon 
                     | X and play, rest of the
      *Night Spirit* | time we barely speak, am I the same type of sub as 
                     | someone who lives it?
       GrandPaDeSade | The definition of kink depends on the society you 
                     | are living in.
               neysa | again a subjective thing
      *Night Spirit* | I don't know I am a licensed minister and I would 
                     | say I smile as kink
          Michael P. | contact between two that know each other can be on 
                     | the phone or on the
          Michael P. | computer, to believe that it must be 24/7 in the 
                     | flesh all the time would seem
          Michael P. | to be a bit limited.  Perhaps for some who need the 
                     | security it is mandatory,
          Michael P. | certainly it would be the first choice, but hardly 
                     | the only one
       GrandPaDeSade | Some people don't think things we see as kinky 
                     | really are.
          Michael P. | NS, if what you feel, do, hope and dream about...if 
                     | how you live the time
     ~nikki~  (busy) | That is only *my* take on 24/7 tho......24 hours a 
                     | day....7 days a
          Michael P. | between visits is determined by that person or the 
                     | need to love, obey, please
          Michael P. | (fill in the blank) then you may have a limited 24/7
     ~nikki~  (busy) | week........you can't *see* anyone's facial 
                     | expression on a computer.....or
     ~nikki~  (busy) | even on the phone.
       GrandPaDeSade | So there are two definitions of kink
      *Night Spirit* | ok then let's say a couple you have a good life 
                     | together, always involve just
          Michael P. | D/s isn't acts it is emotion and the acts
      *Night Spirit* | spanking as foreplay.  Are they D/s?
       GrandPaDeSade | Society, and the individual.
          Michael P. | acts alone are playing
      Lord Excalibur | you can feel them though
      *Night Spirit* | good point nikki
          Michael P. | waking up, soon I'll use correct grammar
       MoL's Katie J | I know spankers who would vehemently deny being D/s
               neysa | oik nikki, going wiht your definition, must the 
                     | parties be toghether 24 hours a
               neysa | day 7 days a week for it to work?
          Michael P. | if you know them well enough nikki, if you really 
                     | have given them all of you
          Michael P. | and they all of themselves you most certainly can
      Lord Excalibur | true Michael D/s is is mental more than physical, 
                     | in the purest sense
          Michael P. | yes, thanks for stating it clear LE
               neysa | menaing neither of them has outside employment or 
                     | family obligations etc?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | No, no...neysa.....but that is *my* take on a 24/7 
                     | relationship........
      *Night Spirit* | ahh Lord E very good.  OK can you be a 24/7 D/s 
                     | lifestylers without any pain
      *Night Spirit* | involved?
               neysa | I think you can
      Lord Excalibur | yes
       GrandPaDeSade | yes
  Electricblueyes> M | Isn't it a fact that all of sex is the mental
  Electricblueyes> M | rather than physical??  so what is the
  Electricblueyes> M | difference exactly here??
               neysa | pain is an aspect of D/s, but not necessarily all 
                     | D/s relationships involve pain
   Master of Leisure | yes,,,NS..that is possible
     ~nikki~  (busy) | You can *see* thru a phone line???
      *Night Spirit* | EBE very good point hon
      Lord Excalibur | thanks neysa, .......... can't answer quick, not my 
                     | keyboard
               neysa | some D/s relationships may be more disci8pline/ 
                     | obedience related
          Michael P. | we all need different things and have different 
                     | levels of communication and
      Lord Excalibur | no you feel nikki
          Michael P. | intimacy, nikki needs face time, others can feel it 
                     | over distance, doesn't mean
          Michael P. | either is wrong, like with anything else between 
                     | people, each has different
          Michael P. | needs and can get the same level of satisfaction 
                     | differently
      Lord Excalibur | very true Michael
          Michael P. | shakes EBE
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <nodding>  I suppose so.......if the couple know 
                     | each other well
     ~nikki~  (busy) | enough......okay......I concede.....
  Electricblueyes> M | Shakes Michael
      *Night Spirit* | ok to all here what makes a person a 24/7 to one 
                     | who isn't, their own thoughts
          Michael P. | I have an example of long distance being real
      *Night Spirit* | on it, or have to live with a Dom/me-sub 
                     | realtionship.  Can you be 24/7 if all
      *Night Spirit* | you do is on-line and never RL?
      Lord Excalibur | thats what pure D/s is about nuikki, knowing 
                     | completely, being inside and
      Lord Excalibur | having the sub want yuou inside
          Michael P. | If I were upset with marie for something, I can't 
                     | reach over the line and swat
          Michael P. | her really
   Master of Leisure | each D/s relationship is different.....and each one 
                     | focuses
   Master of Leisure | on their own unique beharviour patterns
               neysa | yes you can NS
      Lord Excalibur | ah but you can Michael and I do with LA and she 
                     | feels  it
          Michael P. | but I can say "I'm disappointed in you" and if you 
                     | don't think that will strike
          Michael P. | her right between the eyes, well..it will and it 
                     | will be as real as if I said
          Michael P. | it in front of her
     ~nikki~  (busy) | I have stated mine, NS   <s>
               neysa | IF we have stated that D/s is more mental/emotional 
                     | than physical
  Electricblueyes> M | NS--if that was a good point-any chance
  Electricblueyes> M | anyone will address it??
               neysa | it is very easy to hold a 24/7 emotional 
                     | relationhip over the phone or online
          Michael P. | of course I haven't had to test that out
          Michael P. | (S)
      *Night Spirit* | sex might be mental EBE but is the D/s lifestyle 
                     | just mental? or does it have
      *Night Spirit* | to be physical also?
  Electricblueyes> M | That is my question?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | yes to emotional, neysa.....but *I*, persoannly 
                     | need more than emotional input
     ~nikki~  (busy) | for it to work for *me*
      *Night Spirit* | so sex, and D/s are all mental
       MoL's Katie J | I think D/s is built on communication, as is 
                     | online, so the combination make
          Michael P. | on line only can be incredibly satisfying but never 
                     | enough, if it were not so,
       MoL's Katie J | for a powerful foundation for a relationship ... 
                     | certainly in the mental
       MoL's Katie J | aspects.
          Michael P. | so many wouldn't lie cheat and steal to get to each 
                     | other for that moment when
          Michael P. | they must touch to see if it is real
               neysa | nikki, everyone has their own needs and wants
          Michael P. | after that perhaps
  Electricblueyes> M | why is D/s anymore mental or any less
  Electricblueyes> M | than any sex?
               neysa | and that is why you will get 25 different answers 
                     | if you ask 25 different people
               neysa | what D/s means
                 CMR | Hi all!
          Michael P. | hi CMR
      *Night Spirit* | EBE you said sex was mental
         InnocentOne | hi room
          Michael P. | brb
               neysa | EBE, I think it depends on what D/s means to the 
                     | individual
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Exactly, neysa......<s>
  Electricblueyes> M | My question then is--is D/s necessarilly a
  Electricblueyes> M | more physical expression of sex
               neysa | for me, it is a very mental thing
   Master of Leisure | a good 24/7 relationship has to be more than an 
                     | on-line or
   Master of Leisure | phone relationship......the Dom and sub should be 
                     | together
   Master of Leisure | in RL and discover and experience each 
                     | other....whether it
   Master of Leisure | be 24/7 or daily..or monthly ..or quarterly....and 
                     | it should be
   Master of Leisure | a combination of both mental and psychological  AND
   Master of Leisure | physcial........and each should share their 
                     | relationship with
   Master of Leisure | the other
      *Night Spirit* | so a sub who is online only, plays once a week 
                     | while on line is as much a
      *Night Spirit* | submissve as one who lives in that type of 
                     | relationship--there is no difference
      *Night Spirit* | in a player and one who lives it?
          Michael P. | amen MoL
   Master of Leisure | phewww
               neysa | AH HA!
      *Night Spirit* | EBE I think it is
               neysa | a GOOD Rleationship
               neysa | there is the key
               neysa | NS, they are in their own mind
         night nurse | it is more a physical expression of everything that 
                     | you both are
         night nurse | feeling,,knowing..learning...
     ~nikki~  (busy) | For me, Ebe...it is a
     ~nikki~  (busy) | combination.......emotional.....sexual....psychologi
                     | cal.....tis either the
     ~nikki~  (busy) | whole deal or nothing......
   Master of Leisure | you have to work at at good D/s 
                     | relationship..neysa......in
   Master of Leisure | fact, any relationship for that matter
          Michael P. | the satisfaction can't be complete nor the 
                     | connection without seeing and
          Michael P. | touching at least once, that I believe is basic 
                     | human nature
      *Night Spirit* | yes MoL
               neysa | if you only play online once a week, is it just a 
                     | fantasy, that could fall in the
               neysa | face of reality??
  Electricblueyes> M | good NS--keep going--that ios what I
  Electricblueyes> M | want to learn--u think D/s is different from
  Electricblueyes> M | other sex in that sense--this is what I
  Electricblueyes> M | want to learn...
          Michael P. | agree with that neysa
      *Night Spirit* | yes EBE because I have a D/s relationship with 
                     | several people, but I ONLY have
      *Night Spirit* | sex with one
               neysa | If sub a and Dom B have had an online/phone 
                     | relationship for a while
                 CMR | Alright i'm back
      *Night Spirit* | my sub and I do not share sex, he is married, but 
                     | he still obeys me
               neysa | and they finally get together, is it safe to say 
                     | that they both will have certain
               neysa | thoughts of how things SHOULD go?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | It could be (for some) the cyber is the only 
                     | opportunity they get to talk
     ~nikki~  (busy) | D/s......to gauge their feelings, etc......
               neysa | NS, does he obey you in everything, including his 
                     | family matters?
         InnocentOne | bye room
     ~nikki~  (busy) | If they have talked it thru neysa......yes.
         night nurse | neysa are you speaking each having their own 
                     | expectations met
               neysa | exactly night nurse
               neysa | each ahs their own expectations
      *Night Spirit* | nikki then if cyber is all they have are they 
                     | different then someone who kneels
      *Night Spirit* | before their Dom/me daily and sleeps chained? The 
                     | online sub is just a
      *Night Spirit* | submissive as the RL one--isn't s/he?
   Master of Leisure | each should have their own 
                     | expectations..neysa.......
               neysa | and when they get together, isn't there the 
                     | possiblity that one or the other
               neysa | may not live up to thoise expectations
  Electricblueyes> M | As you know, nikki, that is my case--I'm
  Electricblueyes> M | trying to find a defining line between
  Electricblueyes> M | fantasy and reality--D/s to vanilla??
          Michael P. | there can be striking examples of vanilla sex being 
                     | outrageous but the
          Michael P. | difference I feel is that in vanilla partnerships 
                     | it is the exception because
          Michael P. | the people involved are only giving up what they 
                     | can, are likely posturing at
          Michael P. | times, unable to submit themselves completely (on 
                     | average) where as in D/s the
          Michael P. | relationships are normally based on no secrets, 
                     | open soul, completely being
          Michael P. | themselves, no hiding the kink, passion etc
         night nurse | well i started my relationship on line with my 
                     | Master and now we meet once a
         night nurse | month for a weekend sometimes even a week at a time
         night nurse | and i found the anticipation..that grew inside me. 
                     | to be overwhelming
      *Night Spirit* | ok night nurse, I live with GrPa and serve 
                     | him...are you and I different?
      *Night Spirit* | or the same?
          Michael P. | that isn't all there is either.  Those that are 
                     | into the scene may not have a
          Michael P. | D/s relationship, rather they can be playing for 
                     | sensation only (e.g. bottoms
          Michael P. | and tops)
               neysa | exactly michael
          Michael P. | HUGGS marie
   Master of Leisure | nods at Michael......and understands exactly what h 
                     | e
   Master of Leisure | means
         night nurse | No i don;t think we are different
     ~nikki~  (busy) | No, NS......that may be all they have......but it 
                     | doesn't come anywhere close
     ~nikki~  (busy) | to a real D/s relationship.......
         night nurse | i talk to my Master every day on the phone..a 
                     | couple of times actually
               neysa | nikki, but what if it is real to them?
         night nurse | and we talk on line at night
              marieM | hugs back Master.. and I am also amazed at the 
                     | number of people in vanilla
              marieM | realtionships able to maintain a solid D/s 
                     | relationship
      *Night Spirit* | night nurse that may be but in all reality how are 
                     | you different then me? your
      *Night Spirit* | submission is in your heart and soul.....like 
                     | mine--I think we are closer to
      *Night Spirit* | the same
               neysa | marie, but are they being dishonest wiht themselves?
         night nurse | he has opened me up...knows me well i feel
     ~nikki~  (busy) | If that is all they know at that particular 
                     | time....and it works for
     ~nikki~  (busy) | the.....fine......but it doesn't come close to 
                     | kneeling before your Master in RL
      *Night Spirit* | neysa at one time or another all souls are 
                     | dishonest with themselves--question
      *Night Spirit* | is do they know it?
               neysa | NS, does your sub consult you in all things?
              marieM | well neysa i have many conversations with them, I 
                     | think if their vanilla
              marieM | relationship is based on the same principals of 
                     | being open.. then no
         night nurse | my submission is very much inside me...runs through 
                     | me like my own blood does
               neysa | I think if they are maintaining two separate 
                     | relationships they know it
      *Night Spirit* | no neysa only masterbation and drinking habits at 
                     | work and when here he obeys
      *Night Spirit* | is all
              marieM | i think a lot of people can departmentalize and 
                     | recognize their needs for
              marieM | different people and love them for that
          Michael P. | or they've already put themselves in situations 
                     | with vanilla people who will
          Michael P. | never be able to open their kinky souls.  Most in 
                     | BDSM IMHO, tend to be older,
          Michael P. | perhaps having held this desire in check for some 
                     | time and when they could no
          Michael P. | longer keep it restrained (love that word) came out 
                     | to find it.  In some cases
          Michael P. | they must keep it separate
         night nurse | and we are planning to be together in the near 
                     | future
               neysa | would you consider him a 24/7 sub then?
      *Night Spirit* | no
      *Night Spirit* | he can never be -- he is a play thing, only
       GrandPaDeSade | No, but NS and I have a 24/7 relationship
               neysa | would you say his submission to you is the same as 
                     | yours to GrPa?
      *Night Spirit* | that we do beloved
               neysa | or is he more bottom than sub?
       GrandPaDeSade | I wouldn't neysa
      *Night Spirit* | yes he trusts me, and we discussed limits, we try 
                     | to achieve our goal, as GrPa
      *Night Spirit* | and I always attempt for our goal
      *Night Spirit* | but in all reality
      *Night Spirit* | he is sub but not the same as I am to GrPa
      *Night Spirit* | it involves commitment
               neysa | as you said to night nurse, you submit with heart 
                     | and soul, do you feel your
               neysa | sub gives that to you?
       GrandPaDeSade | Agreed
          Michael P. | the other c word
      *Night Spirit* | no neysa not yet our relationship is new
      Lord Excalibur | the most powerful c word Michael
               neysa | ah ok thanks for the clarification <S>
          Michael P. | yes LE
     ~nikki~  (busy) | (C)ommunication & (C)ommitment   <s>
          Michael P. | other biggies nikki
      *Night Spirit* | on the other hand
          Michael P. | biggy
      *Night Spirit* | we GrPa and I have an occiasional play partner
      *Night Spirit* | known as slut2
          Michael P. | lol
         night nurse | trust is a biggy
      *Night Spirit* | she is a switch 24/7
   Master of Leisure | lafffin......
       GrandPaDeSade | NS is slut1
               neysa | <S>
      *Night Spirit* | she has a Dom but she plays with us time to 
                     | time---is she different from us or
      *Night Spirit* | any of you?
               neysa | does she live wiht her Dom?
               neysa | and does bveing switch mean you are not 24/7?
       GrandPaDeSade | No neysa, it's an LDR
      *Night Spirit* | nope they see each other every week-end reason is 
                     | work
               neysa | some folks are "hard wired" Doms or subs
       GrandPaDeSade | She sees us with his permission.
          Michael P. | marie is 1Oslut
               neysa | some can fly on either side of the slash
          Michael P. | or OOslut
              marieM | <S> thank you Michael
   Master of Leisure | lol
          Michael P. | sorry, I'm off on a tangent
          Michael P. | but it means One Outstanding Slut
          Michael P. | I'll be quiet now
  Electricblueyes> M | marie is???  Hi marie!!!
               neysa | LOL I thought it meant she was secret agent slut
          Michael P. | its no secret (S)
      *Night Spirit* | Michael that is so sweet
          Michael P. | (G)
               neysa | LOL
              marieM | hello again EBE.. but neysa dont' if you are a 
                     | switch you have a tendancy to be
              marieM | drawn on way or the other
              marieM | he is a sweetie NS
               neysa | we ARE twisted
       GrandPaDeSade | I think NS shout be called "The Slut's Slut"
               neysa | <picturing this conversation in a bar>
   Master of Leisure | the word is kinky,,,,,neysa.....
               neysa | or anywhere else
              marieM | actually neysa we have had this one in a bar..
          Michael P. | I like Twisted MoL (EG)
  Electricblueyes> M | I'm a switch--you bend to who u are
  Electricblueyes> M | with--it's not difficult
              marieM | and i think more support groups are becoming 3d
               neysa | rhymes with Fisted
     ~nikki~  (busy) | LOL neysa.....
          Michael P. | LOL
       GrandPaDeSade | We've had it at work, with the boss.
      Lord Excalibur | sorry friends I have to go
              marieM | night LE
      Lord Excalibur | see you next week
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Bye LE  <s>
          Michael P. | bye LE, thank you for your thoughts
   Master of Leisure | <weg>....twisted and kinky,,,,,Michael.......and I 
                     | thoroughly
   Master of Leisure | enjoy and love my OOSlut....
               neysa | GrPa, I used to be able to discuss kink at work
               neysa | not anymore
       GrandPaDeSade | Bye LE
      *Night Spirit* | ok by using the words yes or no--are players the 
                     | same as 24/7 D/sers ?
   Master of Leisure | cya,,,LE
         night nurse | night LE
       MoL's Katie J | thanks for coming, LE
               neysa | too much chance of sexual harrassment
          Michael P. | no
      *Night Spirit* | Night Lord E
     ~nikki~  (busy) | nope
               neysa | Nope
          Michael P. | nope wasn't an option, somebody swat em
      *Night Spirit* | my work is kink
       MoL's Katie J | no
               neysa | You are lucky NS
      Lord Excalibur | night all, thanks again for holding the CO's GPDS 
                     | Katie and NS
       GrandPaDeSade | neysa, we work at a kinky place. All of us are.
      *Night Spirit* | thanks for comming Lord E
               neysa | You both are lucky then
       GrandPaDeSade | We think so.
      *Night Spirit* | neysa I work for kinky cards and the Fetish 
                     | Society..yep kink is important there
               neysa | We have to watch out even talking with friends that 
                     | something offensive isn;t
               neysa | overheard by a third party and complined about
      *Night Spirit* | in fact they encourage us to find more kink
       GrandPaDeSade | I swatted NS at work, and the bosses slave 
                     | commented on how nice it was we felt
       GrandPaDeSade | free to do so.
         night nurse | smiling Because sometimes at work as a nurse i have 
                     | to tie men down
         night nurse | to keep them safe
  Electricblueyes> M | question:  is there like a time limit
  Electricblueyes> M | here--why does this end so often with so
  Electricblueyes> M | much going on??
      *Night Spirit* | ok so we are in agreement then any last words on 
                     | this subject?
     ~nikki~  (busy) | <wink>  night nurse......horrible job, eh?
       GrandPaDeSade | Must me nice Night Nurse
       GrandPaDeSade | me=be
          Michael P. | catherizations..oh my
      *Night Spirit* | EBE mainly because I am a diabetic and it is time 
                     | to feed the sugar at 6:00 pm
   Master of Leisure | not really ..nikkki,,,i worked in a hospital for a 
                     | few
   Master of Leisure | years,,,,had to restrain a lot of people...<eg.
       MoL's Katie J | <wince>
  Electricblueyes> M | oh--I understand..
       GrandPaDeSade | Also, after an hour, people start leaving.
         night nurse | restrain .cath..hold down.and try to keep them safe 
                     | from harm
      *Night Spirit* | any last words on this subject? (BTW I want a good 
                     | set of hospital
      *Night Spirit* | restraits--badly)
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Me too, MoL....for many's a year.....<grin>   I did 
                     | the ol' ECT bit
     ~nikki~  (busy) | too......must be where I get my liking for 
                     | electro-play
  Electricblueyes> M | But if they aren't--???  oh well///
   Master of Leisure | hehehe....
         night nurse | ahhh leather ones are good NS
         night nurse | smiling
               neysa | NS and GrPa, thakn you both for a very lively CO
   Master of Leisure | <--used the leather restraints where i worked.....
            ~daisEy~ | <wishing like hell that tonites topic was how to 
                     | cure miss
            ~daisEy~ | daisy's poison ivy><S>
      *Night Spirit* | MoL send me some <hint hint>
   Master of Leisure | the ECT was kewl....<s>
     ~nikki~  (busy) | Gotta go folks.......thanks for the CO, GPDS, NS & 
                     | Katie    <hugs>
      *Night Spirit* | oh daisey poor baby
       GrandPaDeSade | Thank you all for cuming, Whoops, comming.
               neysa | Daisey, take a hot soak in as hot water as you can 
                     | stand with epsom salts
         night nurse | giggling
   Master of Leisure | nite,,nikki.........hugggs..sweetie......we need to 
                     | share some
   Master of Leisure | h ospital stories  in Feb
          Michael P. | what is the topic next time?
            ~daisEy~ | its a real bummer NS
      *Night Spirit* | Thanks all for comming I enjoyed it--in fact I 
                     | really enjoyed all of today
              marieM | thank you NS
            ~daisEy~ | epsom neysa? not aveeno?
      *Night Spirit* | Katie next week's topic is?
       MoL's Katie J | S&M  101 I believe
      *Night Spirit* | btw are you SL's neysa?
               neysa | Aveeno would work too
          Michael P. | thank you
               neysa | <s> yes NS
      *Night Spirit* | oh you are right Katie SM101
   Master of Leisure | thanks for the CO.......NS...GPDS..and my 
                     | katie.....well done
            ~daisEy~ | i tried that<pouting>
      *Night Spirit* | is SL still around?
               neysa | in the living room wathcing TV
      *Night Spirit* | say hi to him for me
               neysa | we got married last year
            ~daisEy~ | and i have tried calamine, caladryl, cortisone, 
                     | benadryl, some herbal stuff<giggle>
       MoL's Katie J | my great granny used to put clorox in the bath for 
                     | poision ivy
       MoL's Katie J | dries it right up
  Electricblueyes> M | daisey--be carefull--that stuff comes back
  Electricblueyes> M | when you think you're rid of it!!
            ~daisEy~ | think i am desperate?<giggling>
         night nurse | you need sun light daisEy
       GrandPaDeSade | Congradulations neysa
               neysa | Thanks GrPa
            ~daisEy~ | bleach, eh?
               neysa | daisey, try Prep H
         night nurse | to dry it up
   Master of Leisure | hope i never get poison ivy.....l;ol
               neysa | stops the itching of Hemmroids, why not poison Ivy
            ~daisEy~ | oh yeah, tried preparation too<giggle>
          Michael P. | and gets rid of bags under the eyes
         night nurse | and then wash eveything your skin has touched to 
                     | make sure you don;t spread it
         night nurse | or get it back
            ~daisEy~ | preparation H even
  Electricblueyes> M | why does it come back night nurse??
      *Night Spirit* | has he gotten any new tattoos?
               neysa | no
               neysa | I got a K last year
               neysa | I want more LOL
       GrandPaDeSade | "K"
      *Night Spirit* | shame I am up to 9 now, had the SL on my back 
                     | finally altered, a woman is there
      *Night Spirit* | now putting chains on
         night nurse | if the juice from the poison ivy gets on material 
                     | and is touched by your skin
       GrandPaDeSade | Oh, OK
         night nurse | it comes back
      *Night Spirit* | I remember the K
            ~daisEy~ | i have been washing like a compulsive, nurse<S>
               neysa | sounds like a nice piece
            ~daisEy~ | washing the sheets
            ~daisEy~ | washing my clothes
            ~daisEy~ | washing my hands
         night nurse | then dry baking soda in your bath
         night nurse | three times a day
            ~daisEy~ | using alcohol on my hands too
            ~daisEy~ | <sighing>
         night nurse | baking soda will dry it up along with the sunlight
      *Night Spirit* | <--glad we have a night nurse here :)
            ~daisEy~ | <thinking the sun makes me sweat and that makes me 
                     | itch more?
          Michael P. | so when are we going to make an effort to move 
                     | people in here from chat or is
          Michael P. | this going to be a meeting place for co's only?
         night nurse | and daisEy when it itches don;t scratch it ...slap 
                     | it with your hand
         night nurse | the stinging of the slap relieves the itching 
                     | sensation
            ~daisEy~ | <- trying really really hard not to sratch at all
         night nurse | i know i have had it too
      *Night Spirit* | yes I am better now
            ~daisEy~ | i dont want it to spread
               neysa | Glad to hear it
      *Night Spirit* | Michael that is up to everyone
       GrandPaDeSade | NS, did you see MP's question?
       GrandPaDeSade | OK, you did.
       MoL's Katie J | the room is always here and available
      *Night Spirit* | this is a good CO place, room space, and excellant 
                     | message board and library
      *Night Spirit* | which chat lacks
               neysa | I HATE getting old
            ~daisEy~ | Exile is having a fit because i am due to be there 
                     | on Thursday and i have this
            ~daisEy~ | nastiness on me
       MoL's Katie J | anytime people want a good place to chat.
               neysa | Katie old habits die hard
               neysa | most people are used to going to chat
               neysa | and if they show up here and everyone is still over 
                     | there
       GrandPaDeSade | The more people that come here, the more chance of 
                     | getting more.
            ~daisEy~ | <will try everyone's advice tho><S>
               neysa | they just naturally migrate
       MoL's Katie J | I know that, but there's much grousing about not 
                     | being able to have a
       MoL's Katie J | discussion there .. which is why we started this in 
                     | the first place.
            ~daisEy~ | <getting really desperate><
      *Night Spirit* | yep but this is good for messages to each other or 
                     | to discuss subjects or
      *Night Spirit* | seeing articles
  Electricblueyes> M | I had it, daisey--2 things--stuff like ben
  Electricblueyes> M | gay--rubs that make the skin burn--and
  Electricblueyes> M | hydrogen peroxide--iifinally it went
  Electricblueyes> M | away--but those arthritic like rubs really
  Electricblueyes> M | seem to help stop the itching...
      *Night Spirit* | this is a fairly good forum alot of variety and 
                     | very adult orientated
               neysa | is it an Adult Controls place?
      *Night Spirit* | yes
   Master of Leisure | this setting is better for a Conference,,,,,that 
                     | way we dont
   Master of Leisure | get offensive and rude jerks interfering with a good
   Master of Leisure | discussion
       MoL's Katie J | yes, neysa
            ~daisEy~ | <cursing Biology and that damn swamp>
      *Night Spirit* | true MoL
          sharp shot | hi all
             Sheriff | you have the right to remain silent
               neysa | you were saying MoL
               neysa | LOLOLOL
   Master of Leisure | i announced the CO tonite on 10 and the ones who 
                     | wanted
   Master of Leisure | to come here...did...
         night nurse | LOL
       MoL's Katie J | sure, Master, you had better knock on wood next 
                     | time <G>
  Electricblueyes> M | even if yer straight, daisey--try Ben Gay--
  Electricblueyes> M | <s>
            ~daisEy~ | <changing major to something that does not involve 
                     | itchy
            ~daisEy~ | plants>
      *Night Spirit* | remain silent in a chat orientated forum?
   Master of Leisure | lafffin....oohhh..well..neysa....
               neysa | uhm last time i checked I didn't live in AL
   Master of Leisure | knockin on my wooden paddle....lol.....
               neysa | so anythign I say must be ok
          Michael P. | thanks Sheriff, but we'd likely string up the 
                     | sheriff here
       MoL's Katie J | <erp!>
             Sheriff | get um sharp shot
          sharp shot | they not listening
   Master of Leisure | nothing like talking too soon
      *Night Spirit* | lol
         night nurse | LOL and looking at MOL
      *Night Spirit* | MoL comming to Folsom?
            ~daisEy~ | has anyone seen Gabby lately?
             Sheriff | o.k.
               neysa | She was on earlier Daisy
   Master of Leisure | grabbing the rope and putting the noose around teh
   Master of Leisure | sheriff's neck
         night nurse | she was in the room yesterday
            ~daisEy~ | damn
             Sheriff | going
      *Night Spirit* | daisEy not in about a week saw her on 10
  Electricblueyes> M | Gabby was on D/s yesterday, daisy
          Michael P. | not I daisEy she was on a few days ago and sorta 
                     | went balistic in 10
   Master of Leisure | katie and I will not e there...NS.......i am going 
                     | to NYC next
   Master of Leisure | weekend....
            ~daisEy~ | she is not on my new friends list yet and  i need 
                     | her witch
            ~daisEy~ | doctoring<S>
               neysa | she was on this afternoon too
          Michael P. | guess she recovered then (S)
       MoL's Katie J | yes, <chair dancing>
               neysa | MoL, Folsom isn't til the end of the month
            ~daisEy~ | went balistic? she ok?
  Electricblueyes> M | I have her # if ya want it Daisey
   Master of Leisure | I chatted with here today,,,daisey..she was on 10
   Master of Leisure | i know that..neysa.......my work schedule is too 
                     | hectic at that
   Master of Leisure | time....school has started and I have many clients 
                     | to
   Master of Leisure | see...its just not good timing
            ~daisEy~ | hey MoL...
   Master of Leisure | she is okay,,daisey..she had a little prob
            ~daisEy~ | write me a note to get me out of Field study would
            ~daisEy~ | ya?<wink>
      *Night Spirit* | and something new
               neysa | GrPa, do you have her fingers bound again??
      *Night Spirit* | we boaught a cheap coffee table
            ~daisEy~ | <hoping Gabs is ok><S>
      *Night Spirit* | and put eyebo,lts and hooks on it
       GrandPaDeSade | The old chinese finger trap
         night nurse | thanks for the conference...enjoyed it alot...have 
                     | to go take a bath and ge
         night nurse | ready for another night of the full moon
               neysa | those are hard to type in LOL
            ~daisEy~ | o Nurse... enjoy,, the ER is hell on those nites<G>
            ~daisEy~ | <trying not to scratch>
         night nurse | laughing you know they are!!!
       GrandPaDeSade | Holiday weekend too.
         night nurse | and all the people get confused
      *Night Spirit* | this old table with eyebolts now in it good for wax 
                     | play or any play and is
      *Night Spirit* | cheap
               neysa | Well all, thanks again for a great CO
         night nurse | bye all...take care...waving good night
               neysa | I have to get to bed, got to be up by 4
               neysa | YUK
         night nurse | as i hop in my tub
       MoL's Katie J | thanks for coming, neysa
               neysa | you're welcome katie
       GrandPaDeSade | Night all.
            ~daisEy~ | <goin to see the witch doctor>
       MoL's Katie J | and you, nightnurse <s>
            ~daisEy~ | kisses
            ~daisEy~ | to all
          Michael P. | night all
       MoL's Katie J | good night, Michael
   Master of Leisure | nite,,Michael.....
         night nurse | hugs to you Katie(smiling)
       MoL's Katie J | good night, marie
   Master of Leisure | niters....night nurse......
         night nurse | hugs to you also MOL
   Master of Leisure | huggs.hon
         night nurse | you all think of me tonight as i have to full moon 
                     | to battle
       MoL's Katie J | sure will as I play cybercop .. lol
       MoL's Katie J | love the full moon .. <G>
         night nurse | and i know it will be a busy night
   Master of Leisure | i have worked many holiday weekends at the ER
   Master of Leisure | Orderly,,,,,you see lots of weird things
         night nurse | that is for sure MOL
         night nurse | winking at you
         night nurse | and smiling
         night nurse | very weird things
********** 9/6/98  6:21 PM End logging Silken Ties.