TERMS
********** 8/16/98 4:58 PM Begin logging Silken Ties.
daisey | kisses NS<S>
*Night Spirit* | hugs sweety
*Night Spirit* | how ya doing?
~daisEy~ | im ok... glad to see i actually made it on
| time<giggle>
~daisEy~ | been working my butt off trying to move in 3
| days<eye roll>
*Night Spirit* | lol, I would love to see GrPa make it on time
MoL's Katie J | <skidding in the door>
*Night Spirit* | have to yell upstairs every week
*Night Spirit* | move in 3 days---yuck I hate moving
~daisEy~ | <giggle> men have their own clocks<G>
~daisEy~ | me tooooo.... where do i get all this crap?
~daisEy~ | Kiss KJ
*Night Spirit* | yep and his runs 10 minutes behind
~daisEy~ | Exile's is worse... count ur blessings
MoL's Katie J | hugs, daisEy
~daisEy~ | see.. he is on time after all
MoL's Katie J | sure, after last week when we were nudged for not
| starting on time <lol>
~daisEy~ | <tired feets>
*willow* | hugs daisey girl
*Night Spirit* | true true
*willow* | <S>
~daisEy~ | oo kiss kiss willow
*Night Spirit* | hiya willow..ltns
GrandPaDeSade | All five of us here?
*willow* | kiss honey
~wrybrat~ | <evening>
~daisEy~ | smoochies wry wry
Blazing~Wings | evening <s>
*Night Spirit* | about bloody time GrandPa
*willow* | <Laffin>ltns NS
TI's~mystic~ | hello everyone <s>
~daisEy~ | mystie???
*willow* | hugs smoochies and licks to everyone...
TI's~mystic~ | hugggs DaisEy
*willow* | mystie????
TI's~mystic~ | ohhh...thank you willow....
MoL's Katie J | hugggggs and greets to all :)
~daisEy~ | did i miss sumthin>
TI's~mystic~ | ohhh..shit
~daisEy~ | ?
*willow* | oohh sheesh listen to me
TI's~mystic~ | lol
*Night Spirit* | I love this topic, causes alot of thoughtful
| thinking
Lance's willow | <S>
*mystic rain* | forgot to change it here <sigh>
Lance's willow | aaww whoney :(
~daisEy~ | good Ns.... i need some thinkin after all that hard
| work<G>
*Night Spirit* | lol
*mystic rain* | :(
MoL's Katie J | I have the damnest lag .. I think i'm going to try
| and reconnect
*Night Spirit* | ok Katie
Flame | Hi all
*mystic rain* | hello NS and GrdPa Sir <s>
Lance's willow | 'lo flame
*Night Spirit* | hiya Flame
Blazing~Wings | hi Flame <s>
GrandPaDeSade | Hello mystic
*mystic rain* | huggs Flame
~daisEy~ | Greetings Flame
Lance's willow | hullo trent!!
Lance's willow | ya old T or D buddy
Lance's willow | <laffing>
*Night Spirit* | ok let's begin basically tonight we want to discuss
| what do those words we use
*Night Spirit* | mean
Flame | overwhelmed(lol)
~wrybrat~ | <smiling at trent> glad that you found your way..
trent | hello friends
*Night Spirit* | is bottom the same as slave, is slave the same as
| sub
~daisEy~ | <sitting quietly>
*mystic rain* | hello trent <s>
*Night Spirit* | is top the same as Master/Mistress?
Blazing~Wings | hi trent <s>
*mystic rain* | <sitting quietly and listening>
*Night Spirit* | is S&M the same as D/s?
trent | wings, rain , brat !!!!!!!!!!11
*Night Spirit* | so let's take one words first
*Night Spirit* | what is a bottom?
MoL's Katie J | I'm sitting on mine, NS
*mystic rain* | <snickering at Katie>
*Night Spirit* | no not that kind there is a term bottom and top
*Night Spirit* | what is a bottom how is it different then a
| submissive or a slave?
Flame | Depends on an indeviduals own defination of the
| word NS
MoL's Katie J | one can bottom without being submissive, I believe
*Night Spirit* | ok Flame explain :)
Blazing~Wings | me too Katie
*mystic rain* | isn';t it one and the same?
*Night Spirit* | is it?
MoL's Katie J | for a particular scene
~daisEy~ | isnt slave sometimes used to imply the loss of a
| safe word?
Flame | words mean diffrent things to diffrent people
MoL's Katie J | that's why we have the conference, Flame ....
*Night Spirit* | so what is a bottom a slave or a submissive?
~wrybrat~ | you've been listening to jacqueline too much, dais
| <laffing>
MoL's Katie J | sometimes we can better define what we believe when
| listening to other
MoL's Katie J | viewpoints
Blazing~Wings | I think the bottom is a willing partner to a Top,
| but doesn't have to be
Blazing~Wings | submissive or slave
~wrybrat~ | are you asking questions, NS?
*Night Spirit* | what makes a person a submissive but not a slave or
| visa versa?
trent | Marriage was defined in Devils dictionary as Man &
| Woman, two slaves & two
trent | masters. In all two people
*Night Spirit* | Wings would that be for just a night or long term?
*Night Spirit* | yes wry I am
~daisEy~ | <- doesnt know how one can bottom and not be either
| submissive or slave
Flame | to be a slave in my book means no free will but a
| submissive chooses to obey
Flame | therefore keeping free will
Blazing~Wings | I think it could be either NS, I can be topped, but
| I am not necessarily
Blazing~Wings | submissive
*mystic rain* | i agree daisEy
*Night Spirit* | so we do think there is a difference?
Blazing~Wings | I think it is a gift of power given to your top
| daisey
~daisEy~ | how Wings?
~wrybrat~ | submissive: one who surrenders control of her body
| and behavior (within
~wrybrat~ | pre-defined limits) during a scene..
~wrybrat~ | ^^Screw the Roses.
Flame | re is a diffrence NS
GrandPaDeSade | Flame many people are voluntary slaves for the term
| of a scene, and still use
GrandPaDeSade | safewords.
HuEur | hi
~wrybrat~ | and I don't agree with their definition of slave so
| I'm not sharing it..
Crickett | <peeks in>
GrandPaDeSade | Hi HuEur
Flame | I know that GPDS
*Night Spirit* | so how is a bottom different from a submissive?
*Night Spirit* | how is a slave different then a sub--they all do it
| consentual and give control
*Night Spirit* | to another
~wrybrat~ | a bottom isn't necessart involved in submission..
*Night Spirit* | are they the same or not?
~daisEy~ | how wry?
Crickett | where is Elder? he has a differnce between bottom
| and sub
MoL's Katie J | to me, submission is not a one night thing ....
| bottoming can be
*mystic rain* | can you share your feeling NS?
~daisEy~ | ahhh<light bulb> thanks KJ
GrandPaDeSade | That doesn't quite fit the definition you gave does
| it Flame? They have free
GrandPaDeSade | will, because the chose to only be slaves during
| the scene, and retain
GrandPaDeSade | safewords.
*mystic rain* | yes...thank you Katie
Blazing~Wings | submission requires a deeper level of commitment
| than just being topped in my
Blazing~Wings | opinion
~wrybrat~ | agreed Kate.
GrandPaDeSade | These words are VERY hard to pin down
*Night Spirit* | to me a submissive is more of one who obeys
| commands given, a bottom plays a
*Night Spirit* | scen with a top, and a slave is totally given to
| the Owner, so do as the owner
*Night Spirit* | requests and whatever he/she wants to do
GrandPaDeSade | Because they mean different things to different
| people
*Night Spirit* | for me I am none
*Night Spirit* | of those
*Night Spirit* | I am property
trent | can one set up one of these relationships by
| contract ??
~daisEy~ | maybe it is a persibak preference.... i for one,
| would NOT want Ex to call me
~daisEy~ | his slave
Flame | I agree with that NS
~daisEy~ | personal even
*Night Spirit* | which means I gave my life, soul, body, spirit,
| mind to GrPa
MoL's Katie J | again, to me, a slave gives up total control, a
| submissive retains control over
MoL's Katie J | some areas which are negotiated with the
| Master/Mistress
Blazing~Wings | yes these things can be defined in a contract trent
~wrybrat~ | and, imho, slave indicates a deeper level of
| submission.. and yes, perhaps when
~wrybrat~ | the relationship is mature you do give up safe
| words.. but only because that
~wrybrat~ | trust and knowledge is so deep.. but the surrender
| of them isn't necessary..
~wrybrat~ | and I long to be called slave by a real time Master.
*Night Spirit* | I make no decisions, I have no money I am his to
| use and control as he would
*Night Spirit* | his car
GrandPaDeSade | But you still retain freedom in some areas of your
| life NS, such as with your
GrandPaDeSade | children.
Crickett | you can do that NS because you have taken it to
| r/l right.......there are some
Crickett | here that cant
*Night Spirit* | I am also a major masochist
~daisEy~ | <S> wry wry
trent | who enforces the contract
*Night Spirit* | I love pain but I hate kneeling, and kissing feet,
| and obeying this and that
*Night Spirit* | trent in our case I enforce it because it is my
| choice to give him all
Blazing~Wings | a contract is essentially an agreement between two
| parties trent they both can
Blazing~Wings | enforce
GrandPaDeSade | Flame, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing
| out grey areas.
*mystic rain* | but you would if that is what GndPa wishes NS?
Crickett | ooppsss just saw something..hang on
Flame | I understand that GPDS
*Night Spirit* | Crickett I made the decision for real life 20
| almost 20 yrs ago
.Adyummy | .....soooooooooooooo
Flame | I am thinking on some of the points made
trent | still freedom of choice and mutual agreement rather
| than court enforceable
*Night Spirit* | rain GrPa wouldn't do that, he likes a fight <wg>
| he loves to conquer his
*Night Spirit* | property
MoL's Katie J | yes, trent
*mystic rain* | <s>
crickett | thats wahat i meann<oohh this feels better <s>
MoL's Katie J | D/s is negotiated between the partners
~daisEy~ | <laffin at the thought of standing b4 the judge
| with Ex>
*Night Spirit* | yes trent I do and live how I want to, trust me NO
| ONE can force me into
*Night Spirit* | anything
~wrybrat~ | and then renegotiated and then renegotiated again
| as the relationship expands
~wrybrat~ | and deepens, correct?
*Night Spirit* | no
*mystic rain* | no?
MoL's Katie J | yes, wry .. it is a living thing like any
| relationship.
*Night Spirit* | with us nothing has changed in 3 yrs
~daisEy~ | it is in my case wry
MoL's Katie J | if your contract does not change, your relationship
| has, yes?
trent | i see this.... but there are contracts and then
| there are contracts
*Night Spirit* | I gave him everything to take care of, and he does
~daisEy~ | we are always redoing our contract as our
| relationship evolves
GrandPaDeSade | We have a one paragraph contract which basically
| says whe has only two rights.
GrandPaDeSade | the right to use a safeword, and the right to leave
| the relationship.
~wrybrat~ | <ggl> NS.. you were then as you are today..
| experienced in the life.. you went
~wrybrat~ | full boat.
GrandPaDeSade | whe=she
crickett | it depends on what both want daisy....you have to
| keep working at it till it
crickett | *is* agreeable
.Adyummy | .....now is the winter of our discontent
*Night Spirit* | wry it was and is I want more out of life then
| watching my floors dry
~wrybrat~ | <ss> as do I, sis..
~wrybrat~ | which is the reason that most of us are here, I
| think.
*Night Spirit* | now a question is there a difference in a Top,
| Master/Mistress, Lord/Lady,
*Night Spirit* | Owner?
~wrybrat~ | same difference, just in the other direction..
trent | a marriage contract for example changes someone's
| status but a business
trent | contract is just about do it or not
*Night Spirit* | wry with me I think it is I have only maybe 80 yrs
| on earth, I am 41...damn if
*Night Spirit* | I will be bored for 40 more
*mystic rain* | my marriage contract did not change my status
crickett | damn
~daisEy~ | for some reason i do not see the same distinctions
| between the words for the Top
crickett | i cant answer that honestly
.Adyummy | ...gosh wotz on!!
Blazing~Wings | how so daisey?
trent | MR marriage contracts are harder to get out of than
| a business contract
.Adyummy | ...<whoopzz>
crickett | for one does at the moment *"own"* me....and it is
| not due to a D/s
crickett | relationship <sighs>
~daisEy~ | i consider Exile to be the Top and my Master and my
| Lord and my owner... but i
~daisEy~ | consider myself to be a submissive and not a slave
*mystic rain* | yes trent....that is why to contemplate them more...
*Night Spirit* | A top controls a scene or play, a Master/Mistress
| has submission, Owners own
*Night Spirit* | slaves or property and Lords and Ladys...well to me
| it just sounds cool
~daisEy~ | i dont see a difference in the current list
crickett | then how does he *own* you daisy?
~daisEy~ | <giggle> NS
GrandPaDeSade | We are getting married, but consider the contract
| to be more defining of our
Hapier2 | hello everyone
GrandPaDeSade | relationship.
.Adyummy | ....dammit dairy stay on message!!
Blazing~Wings | lol NS
~daisEy~ | well crick.... he make the decisions
*mystic rain* | <looks at Adyummy>
crickett | so?????????
~daisEy~ | he has control
Blazing~Wings | daisy how can you by owned is you are not a slave?
*Night Spirit* | ok is there a difference in Master/Mistress and
| Sadist?
crickett | does that quafy as ownership?
~daisEy~ | <thinking> Wingas
~daisEy~ | Wings even
.Adyummy | ...bw....wanker
Blazing~Wings | <s>
Flame | I would have to say there is NS
Blazing~Wings | me too
~daisEy~ | i think that for us i see it that way partly
| because of the language we use
~daisEy~ | when we scene
*Night Spirit* | ok Flame tell me how?
Flame | A sadist enjoys enflicting pain
*Night Spirit* | Adyummy please do not interrrupt and stick to the
| topic, which is NOT to insult
*Night Spirit* | others
Flame | a Master/Mistress enflicts pain to give pleasure
MoL's Katie J | I got him in sends, NS
*Night Spirit* | thanks sweety
MoL's Katie J | when i'm quiet, you know what I'm doing <G>
~wrybrat~ | not necessarily, Flame.
Flame | a concept which a sadist would not entertain as
| pain is the only motivation
Blazing~Wings | I think a sadist sees objects, whereas
| Master/Mistress sees a partner
~daisEy~ | A Master can enjoy it as well
~wrybrat~ | you don't think that a Master/Mistress can also be
| a sadist?
.Adyummy | ......humbles meself ns.......... u soooo wight!!!
MoL's Katie J | depends on the scene .. and the partners
*Night Spirit* | GrandPa
.Adyummy | .....<<awwww me soooooo trash....>
*Night Spirit* | what do you say to this?
JOY & Larry | Hello all <room hug>
GrandPaDeSade | Yes
~daisEy~ | <click>
*mystic rain* | hugggs Joy & Larry
Blazing~Wings | hi Joy & Larry <hugs>
Flame | If a master mistress is only a sadist then the
| relationship would be a strange
Flame | one
suchana | ( evening everyone ) hugggs
*Night Spirit* | is a Master/Mistress and a Sadist the same or
| different--if so how?
*mystic rain* | agrees with daisEy ...<click>
GrandPaDeSade | A sadist can inflice physical or mental pain first
| of all.
*mystic rain* | hugggs suchie <s>
JOY & Larry | what is the topic?
MoL's Katie J | a sadist enjoys inflicting pain
Blazing~Wings | hi suchie <s>
~wrybrat~ | a Master or Mistress isn't necessarily a sadist
| <imho>
*Night Spirit* | topic is we are gonna try to define the words we use
*mystic rain* | does he not *need* to inflict pain?
GrandPaDeSade | And As a practicing sadist I would disagree that is
| not my only motivation.
Lynn | <peeks in sorry I'm late>
JOY & Larry | <<Lynn>.
*mystic rain* | hugggs Lynn
Blazing~Wings | hi Lynn <hug>
~rose~ | <Lynn>
GrandPaDeSade | I would say one can be both, and they MAY be
| different
*Night Spirit* | GrandPa do you need to inflict pain?
.Adyummy | ..not good enough lynnnnnnne!!
trent | the most sadistic thing a sadist can do is deny a
| masochist a beating
trent | hi lynn
JOY & Larry | good point trent
crickett | <trying to scroll back to catch up
Lynn | huggs Joy, Larry, rainy, BW, rosie adyummy trent
Lynn | <S>
Lynn | <trying to be quiet
~wrybrat~ | <click>
GrandPaDeSade | Do I need too, No. Does it give me pleasure to do
| so, yes.
crickett | smooochies Lynn
*Night Spirit* | is it trent I always thought maybe was worse then no
GrandPaDeSade | Agree trent
Lynn | <S> @ Crick
*Night Spirit* | GrandPa do you think of yourself as a Master? or a
| Sadist? or both?
.Adyummy | ....booooooooooooooooored goin!!
crickett | thanks Lynn atleast someone is
GrandPaDeSade | Both
trent | maybe is valid, always leave doubt
Lynn | hugs crickie <tryin to be quiet>
*mystic rain* | then what is the difference GdPa?
MoL's Katie J | how about the combo special? a Sadist Master?
*Night Spirit* | or a Master Sadist?
MoL's Katie J | a Dominant need not be a Sadist
~daisEy~ | i agree with that
Lynn | my Dominant is not a sadist
Flame | <---agrees
*Night Spirit* | Katie I agree--now is a Dominant same as a
| Master/Mistress?
GrandPaDeSade | As a master I control NS. I tell her waht to dio
| etc.
Blazing~Wings | but is a sadist always Dominant?
~wrybrat~ | yes, NS
MoL's Katie J | I would say so, yes
JOY & Larry | maybe each BDSM relationship is unique,like
| snowflakes and fingerprints, and
JOY & Larry | you cant really be so specific with terminology to
| define each exactly?
~daisEy~ | yes
Flame | Yet funnily enough I do get extreme pleasure from
| inflicting pain
trent | What about symbolism? how does one signal intent
| and status?
suchana | ? i am a switch ... ( i am also a Sadist and a
| Masochist ) sooooo .. what
suchana | am i ?>
GrandPaDeSade | As a sadist, the things I do revolve around pain
| MOST of the time. Either
GrandPaDeSade | mental on physical.
Flame | but only because I know the pleasure my sub is
| getting from it
*Night Spirit* | trent good question do you have a answer?
MoL's Katie J | online, a Capital usually denotes a Dominant, and
| lower case, a submissive <s>
*Night Spirit* | suchy you are a Sadomasochist like me
~wrybrat~ | all sorts of goodies, suchie <g>
trent | enlighten me please
suchana | ahhh ( i am a word ! )
Lynn | <-----capital but submissive
*Night Spirit* | but Katie I refuse to use lower case I am what I am
| Night Spirit
GrandPaDeSade | When I punish her as a master, I don't get any
| pleasure out of it, and that
GrandPaDeSade | means she doesn't wither because she knows I'm
| unhappy.
MoL's Katie J | I said .. usually.
JOY & Larry | <was always caps even when i was sub online
MoL's Katie J | I also use Caps
Lynn | <s> <smooches Kate>
suchana | so am i Dommissive Sadomasochist .. or a subdomme
| Sadomasochist ?
GrandPaDeSade | wither=either
Flame | I was always a Dom untill I met and married hubby
| who is sub but now I get sub
Flame | tendancies so what am I?
MoL's Katie J | but there are some Dominants who have taken me to
| task for same.
~wrybrat~ | switch, Flame?
Lynn | me too, Katie
trent | Normal flame
gyrine | good evening
~daisEy~ | normal?
GrandPaDeSade | switch sadomasochist suchy
JOY & Larry | hello gyrine
suchana | Thank you GrPa MS<
gyrine | what's going on in here?
*Night Spirit* | I always say I am a female born, bi-sexual,
| sadomasochist, which means I enjoy
*Night Spirit* | the physical and psychology of pain
~daisEy~ | thats a mouth full NS<S>
*Night Spirit* | sadomasochistic switch sorry missed a word there
*mystic rain* | brb
*Night Spirit* | ok now what is the differences between B&D, S&M and
| D/s?
Flame | I have never had sub tendancies before him and
| could not imagine having em with
Flame | anyone else
Flame | yet he cannot Dom me
Blazing~Wings | but can he top you?
JOY & Larry | <S> wings
Flame | It can get frustrateing(lol)
*Night Spirit* | you are a Dominant you bottoms to only one
JOY & Larry | yes what about the terms "top" and "bottom"?
MoL's Katie J | I would think it's natural to want to take a wald
| on the other side.
GrandPaDeSade | That's not an unusual problem flame
Blazing~Wings | that's why I think you can be bottom with being sub
trent | cul friends
*mystic rain* | understand Flame...i am sub....and so is
| hubby...sort of....
Blazing~Wings | without
*Night Spirit* | ok..so what is B&D?
*Night Spirit* | what is S&M
Flame | I think it is because he is the only man I have
| ever truelly trusted?
*Night Spirit* | what is D/s
Lynn | it's wonderful <s>
~wrybrat~ | lovely, NS? <ggl>
Lynn | <chuckles>
GrandPaDeSade | Many times people get together and then figure out
| that they are both suub, or
GrandPaDeSade | both dom.
Blazing~Wings | that could be why Flame
~daisEy~ | D/s can exist without the BDSM
*Night Spirit* | trust makes D/s go around
GrandPaDeSade | Yes Flame, that sounds reasonable.
*Night Spirit* | ok daisEy how?
~daisEy~ | mentallly
~daisEy~ | n o need to whip to Dominate
Lynn | my marriage is D/s
Lynn | with no BDSM
~wrybrat~ | cerebral D/s
JOY & Larry | B&D=like being tied up and told what to do,
| S&M=like giving or
Flame | and because I do trust him the deeper levels of my
| personality have begun to
JOY & Larry | receiveingpain,D/S like exchangeof power /contol
Flame | emerge I no longer need to be in total contoll all
| the time
*Night Spirit* | ok Larry and Joy is it possible to have all 3 in a
| relationship?
~daisEy~ | yes
*Night Spirit* | or can you have just one?
~wrybrat~ | mind control.. in my cyber relationship the only
| punishment is pleasure..
*Night Spirit* | are Master/Mistress and submissive only D/s?
*Night Spirit* | is Sadist and masochist only in S&M?
Lynn | no
~daisEy~ | no
JOY & Larry | yes noone sadi anything about our comment above,.
| each relationship is unique
JOY & Larry | the terminology only helps to describe what is
| going on.cant describe exactly
JOY & Larry | for everyone
*Night Spirit* | is punishment to be for punishment sake or
| pleasure's sake?
*mystic rain* | <quietly gets up>....sorry...i have to leave.....
MoL's Katie J | my first real love enjoyed Bondage, but that was
| the only element involved.
JOY & Larry | bye rain<hug>
~daisEy~ | that depends on the bottom NS
Blazing~Wings | bye mystic <hug>
Flame | hugs mystic
*Night Spirit* | ok rain sweety--Night
*mystic rain* | <waves goodnight...sorry to miss this>
~daisEy~ | we do not use *punishment* as punishment because it
| IS pleasure to me
*Night Spirit* | so daisEy your question would be how do you punish
| a masochist?
crickett | oohh good daisy , please
~daisEy~ | in order to punish me
crickett | i am sorry
crickett | that wasnt fair
~daisEy~ | he must take away something else
crickett | so you get off on having something taken away?
~daisEy~ | (and i am a masochist)<S>
Flame | It is very difficult to work that one out NS
~daisEy~ | noo crick... that is why it IS punishment
*Night Spirit* | but if Master/Mistress is displeased and wants to
| punish you do you find
*Night Spirit* | pleasure still even though the Dominant is unhappy?
MoL's Katie J | the point of punishment is to punish .. not reward
GrandPaDeSade | I punish NS by doing the same things she likes.
| But, because she knows she has
GrandPaDeSade | displeased me, and I am getting no pleasure out of
| it, she can't enjoy it
GrandPaDeSade | either.
crickett | no it isnt daisy...it is stupid
crickett | there is a differsnce
crickett | one you want so you do
crickett | one you dont like
crickett | so you dont
~daisEy~ | no i do not find pleasurein the decided punishment,
| NS
*Night Spirit* | GrPa and my goals are mutual pleasure, if I hurt
| him, he is upset and I am
*Night Spirit* | punished, it hurts, no pleasure and I ask his
| forgivness
GrandPaDeSade | Once I was so mad, i simply walked away and didn't
| do anything. That really got
GrandPaDeSade | to her.
Flame | Thinking on GPDS's comment
~daisEy~ | that would make me crazy too G'Pa
JOY & Larry | <JOY> when i am domme and punish there are only 2
| reasons for it
JOY & Larry | 1. the sub is messing up
JOY & Larry | 2.because i want to ..(meaning i think they want it
JOY & Larry | totally different
JOY & Larry | reasons one is not for pleasure and one is
Pepper þ----- | I find pleasure in giving the punishment....if my
| partner likes it ... !
~daisEy~ | for me, the worst is when Ex raises his
| voice,shudder>
crickett | so elts see daisy if on line he never spaekks to
| you , you will like as you are
crickett | into S&M right?
crickett | damn typos sorry
JOY & Larry | me too
*Night Spirit* | but Pepper is that really punishment or just
| pleasure?
JOY & Larry | typo
Lynn | <back :(
GrandPaDeSade | Yes daisey, you know you have upset him, right?
Pepper þ----- | its the p^leasure of giving punishment...
crickett | and i am not picking on you i swear
Flame | I think there is a very thin line here
~daisEy~ | yes G'Pa...<noddong> he is sooo oquiet normally...
| and if he shouts... i know
~daisEy~ | he is upset
Pepper þ----- | so its pleasure.... !
*Night Spirit* | Pepper with us, if the Owner is upset with me and
| seeks to punish me, how can
*Night Spirit* | either have pleasure?
Flame | I can see the logic in what u say GPDS
GrandPaDeSade | Flame, most of what we do is bordered by very thin
| lines.
~daisEy~ | and no crick....the masochist inme likes the
| physical pain
*Night Spirit* | is punishment only to be used to punish for bad
| behaviour OR is is also for
*Night Spirit* | pleasure sake thus does it lose it's reason?
MoL's Katie J | there's play punishment .. and real punishment
MoL's Katie J | IMHO< of course
~daisEy~ | punishment for pleasure isnt punishment<G>
GrandPaDeSade | That's why it's so easy to accidently cross those
| thin lines.
*Night Spirit* | aha...Katie that is a very good point :)
~daisEy~ | thats true too KJ
Pepper þ----- | except if you get pleasure of it daisyey !!!
Milady | Hi, what's the topic this evening?
~daisEy~ | i would prefer tocall it playtime Pepper<S>
*Night Spirit* | but Pepper can you get pleasure if the
| Master/Mistress is upset or angery?
GrandPaDeSade | There is pain for pleasure, pain for punishment,
| and other (generally more
GrandPaDeSade | serious) punishments.
Flame | My hubby and I do not use controll words I know
| when to stop so I never cross
Flame | the line we I am in tune to him I often think that
| he is afraid he would cross
Flame | the line where he to dom me
Pepper þ----- | no it has to be an agreed game and getting upset is
| out of the game ... !
~daisEy~ | <thinkin that if he did whip me when he was angry i
| wouldnt like it>
Flame | As I have a very high pain threshhold
GrandPaDeSade | Flame, it may take practice in a controled
| situation for him to feel any
GrandPaDeSade | confidence.
*Night Spirit* | ok so we do agree it depends on the intent of the
| punishment weather it is real
*Night Spirit* | or play
Aria (busy) | <slipping in quietly>
~daisEy~ | yes
suchana | When i am being * punished * it can be many
| different ways .. BUT .,. if the
suchana | punishment is physical ( like a spanking ) then
| Beorn whispers in my ear .. "
suchana | suchana THIS is for Punishment .. YOU WILL NOT
| enjoy this .. Do you understand
suchana | me ? * /.. . and they are whacks .. not nice .. not
| pleasureable .. they hurt
suchana | worse than FUK .. and .. * IF * i get wet ( god
| forbid ) i get different
suchana | punishment .. like i get to sleep on the cushion on
| the floor next to hius bed,
suchana | with my ankle chined to the footboard kinda thing .
Flame | <sad smile> He will not try and somtimes it buggs me
GrandPaDeSade | That's a very good example suchy.
Aria (busy) | Sounds like I missed a good CO
~daisEy~ | Kiss kiss Aria<S>
GrandPaDeSade | The only things I can think of to help Flame, I
| don't think eather of you would
GrandPaDeSade | like.
Aria (busy) | I take it you were talking about punishments?
suchana | AND .. we ahve one specific paddle that i CAN NOT
| stand to even LOOK at .. it
suchana | is heavy and thicjk and has holes in it .. and i
| KNOW when he brings that out
suchana | .. that i am doomed .. i know he means business .(
| and i no there is no way in
suchana | hell i am going to get wet )
Flame | what is that GPDS
GrandPaDeSade | Has he read Screw the Roses, send Me the throns or
| SM: 191?
*Night Spirit* | no Aria words
~daisEy~ | <S> suchie
Flame | No
GrandPaDeSade | Taking him to a commercial dungeon where someone
| could tutor him on you.
Aria (busy) | specifically now... you were talking about how the
| effect is different when the
Aria (busy) | words are spoken that the action is a punishment?
*Night Spirit* | ok can a Dominant bottom? can a slave top?
GrandPaDeSade | Those books may help him also.
suchana | Hugggs Aria dalring .. we are discussingf
| Terminology
Aria (busy) | yes I know that <g>
suchana | Oh ..
Flame | thanks will give it some thought GPDS
Aria (busy) | I was trying to catch the thread of what I was
| hearing when I came in...
*Night Spirit* | do words really have a defination in our lifestyle?
GrandPaDeSade | And it's SM: 101, not 191
~daisEy~ | no, they are different to each of us
suchana | ( oh ) <s>
MoL's Katie J | we went off on the term *punishment* Aria
Aria (busy) | <nod>
MoL's Katie J | so, talking about that at preset .. started with
| talk of Sadism/masochism
*Night Spirit* | are we B&D, D/s, S&M, BDSM, are we sadists, tops,
| Master/Mistress/ slaves,
*Night Spirit* | subs, bottoms, property, toys, pets? What are we?
~daisEy~ | all of the above<G>
Aria (busy) | (giggling) umm
Milady | Must punishment always be physical or can it be
| verbal only?
GrandPaDeSade | Brb
*Night Spirit* | oh yes Milady it sure can be
MoL's Katie J | Milady, to me, the verbal is the worst.
Aria (busy) | well thats kind of broad for a one hour CO, yes?
suchana | * WE * are a fun lkittle group that is definatley
| in search of lifes finer
suchana | darker areas <S. * WE * are unique
~daisEy~ | (with a lil bit of dumpling thrown in)
Flame | verbal is good it plands pictures in the mind mind
| torture is exquisit(s)
*Night Spirit* | Owner saying, I am disappointed in you, I am not
| happy, is worse then any
*Night Spirit* | paddling --I do not wish to upset him
*Night Spirit* | suchy is D/s on the *dark* side of life?
Aria (busy) | In reply to your question, can Dominants bottom,
| and can submissives/slaves
Aria (busy) | bottom, I would have to say that yes they can, but
| that sort of makes them eh
Aria (busy) | <g> switchs, yes?
MoL's Katie J | I dont' know, Aria .. I have had my moments when
| I've topped .. but I wouldn't
MoL's Katie J | call myself a switch
*Night Spirit* | Aria does it, or can a switch switch with anyone, I
| only submit to GrPa but I
*Night Spirit* | will domme anyone male or female--am I a switch?
Aria (busy) | I feel, and maybe this is just me... that its a
| mental phaze we go through, a
Aria (busy) | mind set and for some it is fluid... and for others
| it is semi-permanent
*Night Spirit* | we all use these words, but do we really have
| meanings for them?
suchana | NS .. i believe that D/s is more common than Apple
| pie middle america would
suchana | like to acknowledge, or admit .. so i think that
| until .. ( some ) parts of
suchana | society see it as an acceptable ? ?? ( perhapos
| moral ) form of sexual
suchana | exopression, need and desire, than in a way, it is
| indeed a * dark * side .
GrandPaDeSade | Back
Aria (busy) | For me... I think that if you are a true switch,
| which I term myself, you can
Aria (busy) | switch with anyone... some people you are naturally
| submissive to, others you
Aria (busy) | are naturally dominant to... I don't find for
| myself at least that you can
Aria (busy) | switch back and forth easily with the same person
*Night Spirit* | ok let me ask you this, let's say I had a vanilla
| marriage, and once in a great
*Night Spirit* | while he spanks me when he comes--is that D?s?
~daisEy~ | mild B&D
Aria (busy) | no
Aria (busy) | <g>
Aria (busy) | thats erotic foreplay
~daisEy~ | so, no
suchana | I believe that it is * to a mild extent * yes .,
*Night Spirit* | ok during sex the man holds down the wrists of his
| female partner, is that D?s?
*Night Spirit* | D/s?
suchana | same answer as above
Aria (busy) | (grinning still) nope but getting closer to the line
~daisEy~ | <doesnt think of any of that as D/s...B&D yes>
GrandPaDeSade | How about if he holds your hands down during sex,
| or is a little rough?
*Night Spirit* | where do you draw the line, if you call someone
| Master or Mistress, willing to
*Night Spirit* | kneel, or just get a lite spanking now and then
~daisEy~ | <giggling at Aria's grin>
*Night Spirit* | GrPa GMTA
Aria (busy) | My reply is really really long
Flame | I would have to say playing sex games to that one
| not true D/S
suchana | i believe that is a * mild * form of D/s .
GrandPaDeSade | How about someone who demands the wife's complete
| and unquestioning obedience
GrandPaDeSade | at home?
*Night Spirit* | where is the line when are we vanilla and when and
| where did we cross that line
Aria (busy) | and we don't ahve time for this... as this is the
| very subject that my book is
Aria (busy) | aimed at... the break down of submissive mindset
~daisEy~ | <in line to buy Arias book><S>
Flame | that is D/s
Aria (busy) | Then you have crossed the line GPDS
~daisEy~ | i think that is D/s G'pa
suchana | Doesnt matter if i chop down a bush or the tree in
| the back yard .. i still
suchana | used a chain saw to do it
Aria (busy) | they may not admit it... but it is
MoL's Katie J | NS >> check your sends, please?
GrandPaDeSade | Let us know when it's published Aria
*Night Spirit* | ok last one...how is it D/s compared to abuse what
| is the difference?
~daisEy~ | willingness to participate
suchana | HOLY HELL NS >. do you have about 6 hours for me to
| answer THAT ?
~daisEy~ | consent
Flame | abuse is without consent if u consent to abuse it
| is no longer abuse
GrandPaDeSade | Actually, that situation depends on the woman to
| me. If she does it because she
GrandPaDeSade | wants to, then I agree, otherwise it's more abusive.
~daisEy~ | 6 hours?<checking clock>
Aria (busy) | Intent and consent, emotional impact and
| repercussions
*Spartan* | Whadimiss..<best ny
| accent>...............................
*Spartan* | hello all
JOY & Larry | in D/s you want it in abuse you dont...hows that?
Aria (busy) | 'lo Spartan
~daisEy~ | Kiss Spartan Sir
*Night Spirit* | how about one word--consent--no one consents to
| abuse
JOY & Larry | hi Sparatn
GrandPaDeSade | Hi spartan
JOY & Larry | yes NS
*Night Spirit* | Spartan as usual you missed my naked dance party
~daisEy~ | naked dance party?<perk>
*Spartan* | huggs n kisses not wishing to disturb too much, but
| just enuf for my
*Spartan* | ego....<s>......<yea, like my ego needs boosting i
| could'nt do for
*Spartan* | myself>....oh my lol.........
Aria (busy) | ewww kewl, is it in the log?
Flame | exactly NS
dano | hi ho
GrandPaDeSade | The courts say you can't consent to D/s or BDSM
| because that IS consenting to
GrandPaDeSade | abuse.
~daisEy~ | <thinkin the law is whole nother book>
josh | hey all!!
*Night Spirit* | ah GrandPa that is for another day
Aria (busy) | Can't consent to anal here in Illinois either
Aria (busy) | cause its immoral
*Spartan* | <snapping fingers>...shit.....missed it again
| NS,,,well kisses anyway....
~daisEy~ | immoral<giggle>
JOY & Larry | think you cant to oral in some stats as well
*Night Spirit* | first off before we go, please allow yourselves
| time to check keychat out from
*Night Spirit* | time to time
suchana | The difference is .. abuse is non consensual ( for
| the most part .. i wont say
suchana | some women like to be abused ) or men for that
| matter .... but .. some do
suchana | enjoy it .. .. and consent to it .I want to
| believe that D/s is consenual and
suchana | safe .. and yummy and cream coated ( with M&M's
| under the pillow if i ahve been
suchana | a very good girl )
GrandPaDeSade | You brought it up NS when you said you can't
| consent to abuse.
*Night Spirit* | they have a great game schedule and we have a
| sister section (Alt)ernative
josh | ???
JOY & Larry | we have to go goodnight all...thanks NS,GP,katie
JOY & Larry | <<hugs all>
*Night Spirit* | Night Joy and Larry
GrandPaDeSade | Many states only allow the so-called missionary
| position.
Flame | Really?
GrandPaDeSade | Night joy & larry
Aria (busy) | thanks NS, Katie J, GrPDS
*Night Spirit* | so check out this forum if you can---hey I have a
| site for wierd sex laws
*Spartan* | and where does humiliation end and abuse begin ,
| based on the consent for
*Spartan* | both......throwing that in....
~daisEy~ | <- prolly lives in one of those sttes
zilli | <sneakin in and settin in the corner>
*Night Spirit* | http://laws.home.ml.org/
suchana | i imagine my dear Spartan it should end where ever
| either one thinks it sahould
suchana | ?
*Spartan* | <s>
*Night Spirit* | once again thank you all for coming remember the
| folsom party
*Night Spirit* | http://www.hypnoinfo.com/folsomparty
GrandPaDeSade | Night all
~wrybrat~ | thank you, hosties <s> good night,
Aria (busy) | the log will be available, when, tomorrow morning?
Aria (busy) | Night all <g>
GrandPaDeSade | NS?
*Night Spirit* | hopefully I shall attempt to toss it in tonight.
~wrybrat~ | I'm reading your stuff, aria, yummy <g>
*Night Spirit* | yes love?
GrandPaDeSade | You answered it.
*Night Spirit* | anyone have my old calender and know what is next
| week's CO?
Aria (busy) | oh thanks
*Night Spirit* | wait is next week the 23rd?
GrandPaDeSade | Now when we are done, go ytake up your position on
| the St. Andrews cross.
Flame | nite
Aria (busy) | nite Flame
zilli | i missed your co again didn't i.
Aria (busy) | yes zilli
*Night Spirit* | yep you did zilli
Aria (busy) | we are just finishing
zilli | <i gotta fix my watch>
GrandPaDeSade | Thayt
********** 8/16/98 6:08 PM End logging Silken Ties.