Training
********** 6/14/98 4:58 PM Begin logging Sub Pub - D/s.
Jenna | hi]
Lord Excalibur | good evening all especially my dear Night Spirit
*Night Spirit [HOST] | good evening my dear LE
Lord Excalibur | how are you
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I am good listening to my kids in the other room,
| they are here for a visit :)
Lord Excalibur | oh really, good for you
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yep goijg from sub to switch to Mommy mode
Lord Excalibur | <s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hello SL and tina and Jenna
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hiya M of M
Jenna | hi NS <s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | this should be a fun CO-----get training ideas :)
Master of Morining | hi Ns
Lord Excalibur | hello all (I'm a cheap skate when it comes to
| typing)
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lord E you need a sub typist <wink>
Lord Excalibur | she will be here on the 6th
*Night Spirit [HOST] | oh I bet I know a couple of rather excited folks
Lord Excalibur | <s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | gee GrPa nice of ya to join us
Lord Excalibur | first time she has been out of the USA
Lord Excalibur | hello GPDS
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | It's still early NS, watch it
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lord E then I am assuming you are planning to play
| tour guide at least part of
*Night Spirit [HOST] | the time
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Hi LE
Shady Lady | lol
Lord Excalibur | oh dear I think I feela flogging coming on NS
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <--watching "it" until "it" scrolls off the screen
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | 20
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | More that is
*Night Spirit [HOST] | wait I had 60
Lord Excalibur | only 20
*Night Spirit [HOST] | oh
GeorgeOTJ | Evening folks
Lord Excalibur | hi Gworge
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hello George nice of you to join us
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | total is now 75
Lord Excalibur | George even
loving sub | hello everyone <S>
Jenna | hi George
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hello l sub
GeorgeOTJ | My pleasure
Eldersign | wanders in.
GeorgeOTJ | Hello loving
Eldersign | Evening, all. :snuggles NS:
GeorgeOTJ | Evening Eldersign
loving sub | hi George
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hiya Eldersign you sexy sexy
effy | evening everyone
Lord Excalibur | hi Elder and loving
*~tina~* | waves...
Leda | Hiyas--
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs effy...need a nice silver ring?
effy | <perk>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | evening Leda
effy | <swooon>
loving sub | hi LE hi Leda
effy | huggers tina baybeeee!~
Eldersign | Evening, GrPa. :)
*~tina~* | <wink>......mmm nice to see you here effers
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | NS, I may not be able to take part much. My eyes
| are killing me. Only using one
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | at the moment.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Evening Eldersign
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to the sub pub
| CO--today's topic is training to
*Night Spirit [HOST] | share ideas about the beginnings of slave training
| and what we like and
*Night Spirit [HOST] | don't--dos and don'ts
Eldersign | :knows GrPa can use his DomSense, and work with both
Eldersign | eyes closed...since doms see all, anyway.
Shady Lady | hypnotise one eye,GPDS??
effy | lol Elder
*Night Spirit [HOST] | GrPa go put some drops in hon
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Good shot Shady L
*mystic rain* | good evening everyone ,s>
effy | hugs mysti
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hello rain
Lord Excalibur | hi mystic
Shady Lady | : )
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | True eldersign
GeorgeOTJ | Evening mystic
*mystic rain* | huggs all...don't want to hold up the conference <s>
loving sub | huggss mystic
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I did, NS. No help.
Lord Excalibur | sorry to hear that GPDS
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I may have to change to the other brand.
effy <busy> | you want i should put my hands over your eyes, GrPa?
effy <busy> | <always willing to help>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | since Lord E (one of my favorite folks) is here,
| gonna ask him---what do you do
*Night Spirit [HOST] | during training
*Michael's nikki* | Hiya everyone.....nice to see you all. <HUGS>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Gotta be here to do that effy
Lord Excalibur | oh thank you NS trust you to put me on the spot
effy <busy> | drat
Lord Excalibur | very well
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lord E you deserve it <wink>
*Michael's nikki* | <listening>
Lord Excalibur | Training for me always starts with messages and
| e-mails to arrive at certain
Lord Excalibur | times
Lord Excalibur | this gives me an insight into the sub and her needs
*Night Spirit [HOST] | like daily at 6pm kind of thing
Lord Excalibur | yes thats it
Dakini | evening all
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hiya Dakini
Lord Excalibur | bearing in mind most relationships start in cyber
*Michael's nikki* | Really, Lord E??
Dakini | im not normaly up at this time, hope its a good
| topic
*Night Spirit [HOST] | so you begin with a simple tasks to see how well
| they do with that task?
Lord Excalibur | ok for me anyway Mn
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Dakini topic is training giving ideas and dos and
| don'ts
Dakini | what is the topic btw ?
Dakini | ah i see
Dakini | thanks night spirit
*Night Spirit [HOST] | :)
*Michael's nikki* | Lord E......please....<smile>......call me
| nikki.....
Lord Excalibur | yes and to also get a feel for how submissive they
| are and dedicated to D/S
Lord Excalibur | of course my dear
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok hold that thought
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Eldersign what are your first steps
Dakini | whose eldersign
Eldersign | :thoughtful: In training a new submissive...I start
| with a few
Eldersign | presupposed ideas...that she has needs...she has
| sought a
Eldersign | compliment, me, as an answer...and so, I look first
| at her
Eldersign | self-discipline, and try...
Dakini | sorry hon didnt see you there :)
Eldersign | ...using things such as Lord E...to build her self
Eldersign | confidence...
Eldersign | ...give her the ability to rely upon HERSELF, to a
| degree...
Lord Excalibur | yes Elder I also give her a questionaire
Dakini | can anyone GIVE someone else self confidence
Dakini | i dont think so
Eldersign | ...once she has that, she can begin to explore
| without the
Eldersign | apprehension of her own uncertainties.
MoL's Katie J | I'm with you, Dak
Leda | Don't think so either, Dak.
Lord Excalibur | I disagree Dakini
effy <busy> | they can give someone the support to find the
| confidence that they may
effy <busy> | not have used in awhile
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs little sis
MoL's Katie J | hugggs, Big Sis :)
*~tina~* | think Eldersign means he helps foster that sense of
| self confidence
Lord Excalibur | true effy
*Night Spirit [HOST] | support does build confidence
Lord Excalibur | hi Katie
*Michael's nikki* | Possibly GIVE is the wrong word to use......how
| about *BUILD*???
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Dak, buy showing someone support you can build up
| thier self-confidence
MoL's Katie J | good evening, Lord E
*mystic rain* | thought he said build
Eldersign | A submissive who can successfully DO what I ask...is
Eldersign | going to become more confident she can please and
Eldersign | satisfy me...and THAt is what i try to build.
Lord Excalibur | remember a MAster is there to protect and support
| as well as everything else
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I agree with your statement Eldersign
Lord Excalibur | I agree with Elder
Charley | and don't forget love
*Night Spirit [HOST] | OK other Doms here what do you do for your first
| steps in training
Charley | it has to flow both ways
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | It is Master's responsibility to protect and support
Lord Excalibur | I had not Charley
Lord Excalibur | thats what I said PGDS
*Night Spirit [HOST] | good one charley and welcome :)
Charley | thank you
Lord Excalibur | bloody fingers
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | You said is there to, I strengthened it to
| responsibility to leave no doubt
Charley | I try to use love and their passion
*Night Spirit [HOST] | George what do you do at the beginning of training?
Lord Excalibur | I understand sorry GPDS
GeorgeOTJ | I go indepth in discussion of all sorts of topics
GeorgeOTJ | attempting to learn as much as possible about my
GeorgeOTJ | sub.
Charley | GPDS?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | GPDS=GrandPa DeSade
Charley | ok
Charley | just got it myself
GeorgeOTJ | By leaning as much as possibile it allows me to
GeorgeOTJ | conduct training in the best possible manner for
| that
GeorgeOTJ | paticular sub
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok so what I have gathered is 1. learn about the
| sub 2. set simple tasks and
*Night Spirit [HOST] | compliment them when tasks are completed
Dakini | to what end ?
Lord Excalibur | thats the basics yes
Dakini | surely the aim has to be in sight
*Night Spirit [HOST] | to begin a relationship
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Dakini tell me the aim
Dakini | what are you *training* them for
*Michael's nikki* | <tugging marie in to sit beside me> HUGGGGS!!!!
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Dakini what do you train them for and how?
Lord Excalibur | to serve you to the fullest extent Dak
marie | hello all squeezing in next to nikki
Lord Excalibur | surely
Charley | I train them to get please ure from pleasing me
Dakini | thankyou i just wondered :)
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Charley how do you get them there
o | Master once said to me...that the purpose of
| training...is to help a slave...become...more fully
| and completely...the person they
o | were meant to be...
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | The aim actually varies with the submissive for me
*Night Spirit [HOST] | o that is a good quote--thanks for sharing it
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok GrPa--how?
Mary | it would for me too, GPDS!
*Michael's nikki* | "meant to be" in *who's* eyes, o???
Charley | I treach them love
o | you're welcome....NS...hi all...
Dakini | id have severe doubts about any dom/me who claimed
| they could see what a person
Dakini | was "supposed to be"
GeorgeOTJ | I agree with Charley, it's important to me that she
GeorgeOTJ | derive pleasure from pleasing me or she won't be
GeorgeOTJ | around long.
Charley | and how to achieve satiusfaction by pleasing me
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I want us both to get as much out of the
| relationship as possible, so i tailor
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | training to the submissives needs
o | no...i do not mean like that Dak....i mean...about
| realizing...potential
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok so 3. Important the sub enjoys pleasing the
| Master/Mistress
Charley | It's not too much differnet then trianing a dog
o | not...forcing someone to be what they are
| not...but...helping them...to grow, change...develop
marie | excuse me Charley?
Dakini | i understand what you meant o, but its a hell of a
| claim for anyone to make to
marie | do you mean a pet, that you treasure?
Dakini | say they can do that for someoen else
Mary | a dog??????????????
Eldersign | :covers his eyes:
MoL's Katie J | oh, Charley, you had me with you until the last.
GeorgeOTJ | <raises an eyebrow> I don't think I'd go to that
| extent
MoL's Katie J | <shaking head>
marie | that you take responsiblity for to
marie | care for above all else..
Charley | Sorry if I offend you
*Night Spirit [HOST] | well a dog has no free will and sub does
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Dak, you find out about the submissive by talking
| to them.
MoL's Katie J | ya, Elder, it's not going to be pretty <G>
*~tina~* | hopes charley didnt mean that literally...but I
| think I understnad what you
*~tina~* | meant charly
Eldersign | No kidding.
Dakini | one would hope so gpda
Charley | but the best trainers use love also
o | someone...who is very wise...who truely
| cares...can...
Dakini | but that doesnt always happen
Lord Excalibur | communication in all relationships is impotant
| especially in a D/s relationship
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I think charley meant the training of a sub and a
| dog runs certain parellels
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <sp> where is MOL when I need him
Charley | I only used it as it as a comparison
Eldersign | I have a question for o...if she will accept it.
*Michael's nikki* | Freudian slip, Lord E <laughing>
MoL's Katie J | in Albuquerque
Dakini | i thought charleys statement was perfectly
| reasonable
o | i am happy to hear it Elder...and if it is
| permitted i will answer
Eldersign | nods
Lord Excalibur | tols you my fingers wern't working Nikki <s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | we need to get that man a laptop
MoL's Katie J | I am his laptop.
Dakini | lol
effy <busy> | <chuckling>
Mary | roflmao!
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Some submissive would like to be trained as a dog
| anyway. (Excluding the
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | meaning used here.)
*Night Spirit [HOST] | o you may always answer here :)
marie | yes Grand Sir.. they do..
Eldersign | O is the best "slave"...as opposed to a
| "suibmissive"...I've
Eldersign | ever seen...and I'm wondering what her view is of
| the
Eldersign | differences the two categories require in training.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | well some subs like to be trained to be furniture
o | NS...not if it is something Master does not permit
| me to speak of...<s>
Charley | you cannot beat love in to any cereature
Dakini | i dont think she meant permitted by us nightspirit
marie | it's the objectification and exhibitionism that is
| brought forth
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Correct marie
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Master allowance is different sweety--I meant for
| us here it is ok :)
Charley | and depending on the subs requirements
o | thank you for your compliment Elder...i am...what
| Master makes me...and...<thinking>
Charley | you must design a degree of discipline
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Very true Charley
*Night Spirit [HOST] | o are you what Master makes you OR are you what
| Master and you make you?
Lord Excalibur | I agree totally Charley
MoL's Katie J | <thinking what a lot of work MoL has ahead of him>
Charley | it takes 2 to tago in any dance
*Night Spirit [HOST] | 4. discipline---ok what kind of disipline should be
| used in training?
Mary | not true, Katie!
MoL's Katie J | o left, NS
Charley | tango
Lord Excalibur | depends on the sub NS
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | And, Charley, any dom who tries that, a sub should
| run away from fast
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lord E please explain
MoL's Katie J | <hugs Mary>
Dakini | a dom who has to resort to physical violence has
| failed as a dom imo
Charley | a dom must find out what the sub requires
effy <busy> | <got lost> any dom who tries what?
Charley | pain humiliation
o | apologies all...got dumped...
Charley | etc and the supply it well kaced with love and
| reward
Mary | To me, the training of a sub or the training of a
Mary | Dom/me depends on the entry level first and
Mary | foremost. I would train a new Dom/me differently
Mary | than I would a new sub.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Beating something into a submissive
*Michael's nikki* | wb o <smile>
Lord Excalibur | some need physical punishment and some mental
o | hi nikki...
effy <busy> | thank you GrPa
Charley | on line it is all mental
MoL's Katie J | w/b o, and you need not apologize for the quality
| of your connection :)
*Night Spirit [HOST] | well punishment can be--stand in the corner, eat
| out of a bowl on the floor
*Night Spirit [HOST] | spanking with a tool the sub doesn't like--but in
| all reality it is agreed upon
*Night Spirit [HOST] | before hand by both parties
*Michael's nikki* | Dak....physical violence = abuse (does it not)????
o | Elder...not sure if you got my response...
Charley | not if the sub requires it
Eldersign | No, o...I did not.
Dakini | non consentual physical violence yes nikki
*Night Spirit [HOST] | o I am glad you are back dear :)
Mary | I disagree with you, Charley, it can sometimes be
Mary | physical if online as well as mental.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | nikki, not if it's consensual, and what the
| submissive wants
marie | LE mental punishmetn - could you define?
Dakini | who decides that charley ?
o | i said...thank you for your compliment...i am what
| Master makes me...and then...<thinking>
Charley | the sub in reality
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yes let's discuss mental punishment for a naughty
| sub in training
Charley | if it is not what she or he requires
Dakini | or lets discuss it for sadistic pleasure too :)
Charley | she ids gone
Eldersign | I do not use deprivation...I find it self-defeating.
MadAtTimes | hi all
Dakini | hi mad
Lord Excalibur | sorry got distracted
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I can do exactly the same thing to NS. If she
| thinks we are playing she will
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | enjoy it. If she thinks she is being punished, she
| will not because she knows
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | she has disappointed me.
GeorgeOTJ | Evening MAD
MadAtTimes | hi Dak
Dakini | fancy seeing you here at this time mad
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok charley here is a thought--the sub in training
| is a masochist--that change
*Night Spirit [HOST] | how you conduict the training?
Lord Excalibur | thank you GPDS
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs MAT
MadAtTimes | hi George
MadAtTimes | hugggs NS
MadAtTimes | brb all
o | Elder...do you still wish me to answer...?
Lord Excalibur | more or less as I would have described it GPDS,
| excuse me all I am lagging by
Lord Excalibur | about 30 secs
Eldersign | Surely...if the room allows.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | so punishment of a sub in training should be very
| different from play?
Dakini | i think a lot of us are lord e
o | yes...i wasn't sure...if...the conversation had
| moved on....<hates compuserve at times>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yep seems CompuServe is lagging
Dakini | i dont think you can make any set rules up like
| that night spirit
Lord Excalibur | yes NS, LA enjoys spanking but hates it when its
| punishment
Eldersign | I agree with GrPa...WHAT you do is less important
| than
Eldersign | HOW it's done...and taken.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Sometimes I even have to support her after a
| punishment because she is so upset
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | at letting me down. Sometimes I don't even have to
| punish her, because she is
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | already punishing herself more than I could ever
| do. That is when she needs
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | love, reassurance, and support.
Dakini | agrees with elder for once
Lord Excalibur | excactly Elder
GeorgeOTJ | So it may be the intent rather than the act that
| makes
GeorgeOTJ | it enjoyable or not.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok Dakini is play and punishment similar?
o | one main difference to me...Elder...would be about
| negotiation
*~tina~* | <s> GPDS
Lord Excalibur | agree totally GPDS
Eldersign | nods to o
*Night Spirit [HOST] | good point o
Dakini | i think its different for different players
| nightspirit
Eldersign | o...may I send you?
Lord Excalibur | LA at times ppunishes herself more than I would
Charley | good night all
Mary | g'night Charley
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Night charley and thanks for stopping by
Dakini | night charley
GeorgeOTJ | Night Charley
Lord Excalibur | night Charley
MoL's Katie J | g'nite, Charley .. same time next week :)
*Spartan* | Kisses little one........sorry, traffic getting
| home....<s>........
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Dakini can you give us insight to trainings you
| have been through?
o | Elder...i must ask you to check first with Mistress
| LWS...and since she is not here...i would ask that
| you don't at this time...
*~tina~* | kisses Daddy <s>
Eldersign | Evening, Spartan. :)
*Spartan* | A good evening to
| all..........................................
*Spartan* | .
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs my favorite hairy guy
marie | i think in general subs are much harder on
| themselves..
Dakini | i havent had any training at all night spirit
marie | and a good Dominate who knows his sub realizes
| this..
Lord Excalibur | hi Spartan
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I think many submissives, if given the choice of
| punishments, would punish
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | themselves more than the doms will.
*~tina~* | <nods>
marie | sometimes just the words * I am very disappointed*
| is enough
Eldersign | :nods to GrPa:
*Spartan* | huggs and shakes around, not to disturbe the
| CO..................
*Night Spirit [HOST] | marie why do you think this happens?
effy <busy> | god i hate those words, marie
MadAtTimes | <back>
Lord Excalibur | I would agree with that GPDS, LA most vetainly does
GeorgeOTJ | I agree marie, mine HATES that
*Night Spirit [HOST] | CO is ideas and dos and don't of training
marie | and they use them soooooooo well don't they effy
effy <busy> | yes <looking down>
*Spartan* | <lookin round>..who ...us...<innocent look>..
marie | I know when Michael is slighty vexed just by a word
| or two
MoL's Katie J | <hasn't heard that one .... yet.
Eldersign | I'm VERY careful, using those words...they are
| destructive,
Eldersign | if said seriously.
marie | which one Katie?
Mary | wait til you do, Katie! <g>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Spartan what golden thoughts can you offer about
| training
MoL's Katie J | disappointed
Lord Excalibur | yes marie the way in which something is said can be
| punishment enough
marie | i agree Eldersign.. i havne't heard them but once
| or twice
*Spartan* | is there any other way to say them Elder ?
effy <busy> | there are very few things that can make me cry, but
| that's one of them
*Spartan* | oh my NS......
Eldersign | "I might have been a bit happier if you had done
| this,
Eldersign | subbie...", etc.
*Spartan* | <--- cant stand tears....................
MadAtTimes | has said those words and recrafted the feeling of
| trust after
*Michael's nikki* | <gggggr>
*Spartan* | hate them, hate them, hate
| them...............................................
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I would rather punish her than tell her I am
| disappointed. That leaves her
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | feeling she hasn't been punished, but needs one.
| Sometimes she will try to
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | punish herself.
*Michael's nikki* | (booted) sorryyyyyy
*Night Spirit [HOST] | tears---what happens when that happens?
Dakini | i dont think i could accept training from anyone as
| a domme except on very
Dakini | technical issues such as how to use a cat or some
| such thing, otherwise, well
Dakini | i prefer my own ways and couldnt really accept
| anyone else knew any better
Lord Excalibur | love comfort support
Eldersign | You put aside the problem for the moment and heal
| the loss
Eldersign | of control.
GeorgeOTJ | Good advise Eldersign
*Michael's nikki* | I have cried and felt the disappointment that
| Michael feels when I have shed
*Michael's nikki* | them......that to me is more than enough
| punishment......
marie | well i guess it depends on the premise of the
| relationship..
Eldersign | You cannot discipline when your submissive is
| already
Eldersign | diddraught and not listening...she must be alert.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Good advice eldersign..I like that
marie | the first rule is there aren't any mistakes..
marie | i can't screw up so to speak
marie | so that in and of itself i have to remember..
MadAtTimes | good marie - if a golden tenet is that you will
| never let the other down,
MadAtTimes | then if either is disappointed then BOTH have the
| right to say so
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok so we have the matter back in hand, the sub
| knows there is punishment, and
*Night Spirit [HOST] | has begun the relationship and training--what is
| next?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I'd say the first rule (for the dom) is to watch
| the sub carefully, and provide
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | the love and support when it is needed.
Eldersign | Then...you can start to teach.
o | i believe...that...a slave...can screw
| up...but...that that doesn't...change the love...
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <--glad to hear we are all human
*~tina~* | whew
Lord Excalibur | true o
*Spartan* | well NS, regarding training and punnishment.....I
| on one occasion, punished
*Spartan* | tina <physically>...and, tho it got the point
| across, was not in the least
*Spartan* | thing right to do<after thought>.........i believe
| that to be able to
*Spartan* | distinguish betweenpain <expected or wanted> and
| pain for punnishment, the pain
*Spartan* | can get confused, tho the vocal tones and manner
| will be different, I have
*Spartan* | opted for other ways to punnish since, <not that it
| has been necessary at
*Spartan* | all>........
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok Eldersign--what do we teach?
joe | could I be a slave?
MadAtTimes | this is good stuff - having moved from a punsihment
| based phase into a
MadAtTimes | contol phase
GeorgeOTJ | Right o, just like a child in some ways, I
GeorgeOTJ | disappointed in the action, not the person
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | o, it's an error, not a screw-up, most times.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | screw-ups I see as more serious.
o | yes....George...exactly.... different terms
| GPDS...how do you distinguish them?
Eldersign | First...*I* teach a submissive that she's a
| submissive ONLY
Eldersign | in the sense that she looks to me...that submission
| is not
Eldersign | given to everyone.
*Spartan* | there are much better ways to get the point
| across.......and I have learned to
*Spartan* | see these.......
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Spartan so you say it is alright to change
| techniques, and do what is needed to
*Night Spirit [HOST] | help the training go on and the relationship to grow
marie | that's what i meant george - disapointed in the
| action, not in teh submissive
marie | herself
Eldersign | When she can be a composed, beautiful woman, and
| only
Eldersign | look to me, we have a beginning.
effy <busy> | as the relationship changes, don't the techniques
| also change?
Dakini | that sounds horrible elder
*Night Spirit [HOST] | does it effy? If so how?
effy <busy> | doesn't the form Domination takes, changes?
*Michael's nikki* | <smile> You need baeuty and compose in your subs,
| Elder???
Erek & kisa | Pardon our lateness - Greetings to all
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I see most things a sub does that I may not like as
| errors in judgement.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Screw-up are much more serious. then there are NS's
| attempts to get me to
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | punish her by intentionally doing things.
*Spartan* | i think we r all in a constant growing phase with
| each other, and even if
*Spartan* | familiarity assists, change is constant and needs
| to be done
*Spartan* | constructively.....for the relationship
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs Erek and kisa--topic is training
*Night Spirit [HOST] | who me? GrPa?
Dakini | <hands elder a stamford wives video > :)
MadAtTimes | I hear that GPDS
Eldersign | Yes. A submissive must be the melody...and the dom
| only
Eldersign | the harmony...i don't dso this to make ME look
| good, except
Eldersign | in the sense that what my submissive does reflects
| on
Eldersign | me...she is the star, and always will be.
*Michael's nikki* | LOL Dak
MadAtTimes | I have had to point out whatis permissable to get
| me in the mood wanted
Lord Excalibur | I would say that was true Spartan, as the
| relationship progresses certain
Lord Excalibur | things come naturally
*Night Spirit [HOST] | so the sub should get the dom in the mood to train?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Stepford Wives dak
Erek & kisa | NS- Yes, I saw. Interesting to note that over in
| PCEN Alternatives (closed BDSM section) we are
| discussing that right now ---
Dakini | im thinking where is the humour in all this ?
| without it the whole thing sounds
Dakini | very depressing indeed
Lord Excalibur | yes when talking to others Elder she must reflect
| the ability of her MAster
o | no Dak...it's not depressing...it's the most
| wonderful...adventure
MoL's Katie J | Dakini, I do everything with humour.
Dakini | good to hear it katie
*Spartan* | the gravest of errors for all is a lack of
| communication, tho position should
MoL's Katie J | my Master appreciates that in me.
*Spartan* | not ever be lost or
| forgotten..<Top/bottom>........the availability of
| open
*Spartan* | dialogue must be there always, else all will
| fail......
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ah...good point--humour is good for both--after all
| it is play time, play room
*Night Spirit [HOST] | and toys
MadAtTimes | I see no reason why the sub cannot influence the
| "level" of training
Erek & kisa | altho it started as a complaint against there not
| being enough good TOPS/DOMS, so my question is -
| whose training? Dom or sub?
*Michael's nikki* | I think ....when the fun stops....the boredom sets
| in.....*my* opinion...
*Night Spirit [HOST] | good point Spartan
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Without humor, no relationship is any good Dak,
| vanilla or D/s
*Night Spirit [HOST] | MAT--ok how?
Dakini | well that was my point gpds
*Spartan* | depends
| Eris...............................................
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | The same for communication
*Spartan* | Erik...<sorry>
*Spartan* | Erek.........<grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr>
MadAtTimes | at a basic level - the sub may wish more/less
| severity if there is an
MadAtTimes | upcoming scene planned
GeorgeOTJ | <room Jester
MadAtTimes | he/she can influence the Dom/mmes mood preceding
| that
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Erek interesting thought--who is actually running
| the training--the dom<me> the
*Night Spirit [HOST] | sub or both?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | There are many opportunitys for humor in D/s
Erek & kisa | Who trains the DOM?
Dakini | the sub
*Night Spirit [HOST] | how?
Mary | the sub
Eldersign | :grins: The dom had better be able to stay a couple
| grades
Eldersign | ahead.
Dakini | the entire situation itself is the training
MadAtTimes | someone once said the Domis in charge, the sub is
| in control
Lady Rapunzel | Not that old chestnut again? <laughs>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | how does the sub train the Dom?
Erek & kisa | What training does the TOP have that makes them
| capable of training a bottom?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | MAT I like that
Lord Excalibur | stronger will
Dakini | subtely one would hope NS :)
Lady Rapunzel | Aren't we a partnership?
marie | Erek i think in general a lot of Dom's hava
| network, or read or find a mentor..
marie | the subs they have may train them to read the
| situations better, and experience
marie | does that in general but there has to be some point
| of reference even if it 's
marie | an inate ability to teach and take on that role of
| responsiblity
o | for me...it is very very important to me...that
| Master is...much wiser than me...much further ahead
| than me....i never never
o | control Him...not ever
Lady Rapunzel | Doesn't it change every moment?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R in training are we partners and if so...how?
*Michael's nikki* | Don't you think....with each relationship......each
| being different.....the Dom
*Michael's nikki* | trains the sub.....AND the sub kinda trains the Dom
| too.....to realise new
*Michael's nikki* | experiences....emotions, etc
Lady Rapunzel | You can only learn what you are open to learning.
Erek & kisa | marie - nicely put
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | For instance, NS and I play nipple clamp trivia. I
| tighten the clamps if she is
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | wrong, they stay the same if she is right. Then I
| ask questions like "What was
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | the name of my first dog?" She can't win. But
| trying can be lots of fun, and we
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | both get what we need from the scene.
effy <busy> | personally -- i think part of the training is that
| the Dom get to know the
effy <busy> | sub --- and to that point the sub is in charge, in
| a sense, but then there is
effy <busy> | the letting go and -- i think that is no longer
| true.
MadAtTimes | I suspect many new Doms have scened with
| experienced subs to gain
MadAtTimes | knowledge tho they may not admit it
*Spartan* | depends on the situation NS, as Erek asked...in a
| union type of relationship,
*Spartan* | as tina and I have, i feel at times<most times> we
| have both contributed to how
*Spartan* | the relationship will go, as with the
| communication, feedback on both parts is
*Spartan* | necessary, tho I feel that I prolly guide it<hard
| ass Top>.........with the
*Spartan* | input from both, in other situations it can go one
| way or the
*Spartan* | other.............................
Dakini | personaly i can say that i have always learnt a lot
| from subs i have been
Dakini | with
*Michael's nikki* | ROFL GDS
Lady Rapunzel | You guys make me roar.
o | effy...the...Dom...to me...should still be in
| charge...of finding out about the sub
effy <busy> | i agree o
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok so as the training goes along both parties grow
| together
marie | I think the basis for any worthwhile relationship
| is a lot of communication and
marie | input..
effy <busy> | i could not respect the Dom if there was not the
| level of control there
effy <busy> | (ergo: i am Domless)
Lord Excalibur | of course marie
Dakini | but busy effy <s>
Mary | lol
Lady Rapunzel | "Training"
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok now we are in training---and so far so
| good---now what?
effy <busy> | only busy to the snerts :)
Lady Rapunzel | You make it sound like the damn armed forces.
*Spartan* | o....she needs to release the power she holds over
| the relationship to the Dom
*Spartan* | for him to have control, else there is no
| consentuality, and it becomes a rape
*Spartan* | of sorts.........................
*Spartan* | SWAT Rapp........
*Spartan* | where ya been
*Spartan* | <g>
Erek & kisa | I think also there is often confusion when just the
| word 'training' is used, for are we discussing
| physical techniques and habitu-
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | NS is a SAM (Smart-Assed_Masochist), and a switch.
| Hard to control. Some like
Lady Rapunzel | Lookin' for you an' tina ;)
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | that, (I do), some don't
Dakini | lol rap thats what i was saying earlier about where
| is the humour ?
Erek & kisa | ation - or a mental preparedness - on either or
| both sides.
*Spartan* | <S>, bout time u got ur ass in
| here...................roar......................
Lady Rapunzel | <chuckle>
o | a rape...only if she continues in the
| relationship...and why would she...in such a
| situation...Spartan?
Lady Rapunzel | I'm hung-over.. gimme a break
MoL's Katie J | Erek, the discussion has been more to the mental
| than the physical.
effy <busy> | if it is what she desires... why not
Dakini | if she is a slave she has to doesnt she o ?
MoL's Katie J | to this point, at least.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | so now what----what is important in training--after
| the basics?
o | no she doesn't Dak
*Night Spirit [HOST] | where do we go from there
MadAtTimes | expanding horixons
Lady Rapunzel | We have agreed on basics?
GeorgeOTJ | I believe that many times the sub is more
GeorgeOTJ | knowledgable in D/s but the Dom posseses the
GeorgeOTJ | leadership qualities that the sub is looking for.
| This
Mary | the trenches, NS? <G>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Does she have safewords Dak? Besides, she can
| always leave.
GeorgeOTJ | has been the case with me and my first, she was
GeorgeOTJ | into it up to her ears, I learned from her and
| provided
GeorgeOTJ | the leadership and direction.
o | although...some disagree on that...
Lady Rapunzel | Oooh
*Night Spirit [HOST] | how long is training before the sub is no longer in
| training?
MadAtTimes | or horizons take your pick
Lady Rapunzel | I always miss the good bits
Eldersign | :points out that even slaves can leave...something
| he only
Eldersign | recently considered:
Erek & kisa | Katie - OK --- What makes a DOM capable of training
| a sub
Lady Rapunzel | Isn't this *last* week's CO?
Dakini | not in the true sense of the word slave, otherwise
| she or he is a sub
o | some slaves...choose to give up that right Elder...
Lady Rapunzel | We have a book of Rules now?
Lady Rapunzel | That the Dom has to learn?
*Spartan* | u misunderstand o , i was refering to the
| response u gave effy, and it is not
*Spartan* | up to the Dom to just find out, the thought was the
| release or giving of
*Spartan* | herself in essence her power or the power she hold
| over the relationship, then
*Spartan* | gives control to the
| Dom.......................................
*Night Spirit [HOST] | basics, communications, start a relationship, set
| rules, play vs. punishment,
Erek & kisa | What mental techniques should a DOM have trained in?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | know where we stand and where we go from here
GeorgeOTJ | <chuckles> Rule book
Beorn & suchy | Greetings nad Salutaions .. <setting suchana firmly
| on the ground at my feet .
o | no Dak...my Master...grants His slaves the right to
| leave Him...but note...who is granting that...
Lady Rapunzel | Oh please
Lady Rapunzel | What mental techniques.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hiya B & s
Lady Rapunzel | Yikes.
o | NS...i believe...training...is forever...
Beorn & suchy | Shakes Night Spirit
MoL's Katie J | I can only answer that for me, Erek ....
| Personality .. a desire to learn about
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh good point o
MoL's Katie J | his sub and to explore what they can be together.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | shakes?
*Spartan* | then the Dom may proceed, but if he does not
| receive that from the sub, *then*
*Spartan* | it is like a rape.....o
Dakini | thats YOU o i was talking about the generaly held
| idea of what a slave is
Erek & kisa | LAdy Rap - you have a problem with the question -
| or just fell you need no answers?
Beorn & suchy | well <S> n o kisses without asking your Master <S>
| ( suchys fault, anyway )
*Spartan* | thats bullshit o, if u gotta leave, u leave,
Eldersign | :talk issues, people...not personalities:
Lady Rapunzel | <chuckle> Erek, *how* do I always manage to piss
| you off in these CO's?
MoL's Katie J | Lady Rap is our protagonist <G>
Beorn & suchy | what is the topic ?
*Spartan* | u dont wait for his permission to be granted to
| leave......
o | Spartan...have you ever read Violence in the Garden?
MoL's Katie J | or antagonist .. take yer pick.
Lady Rapunzel | You're talking about training as if it is something
| that can be defined.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Owner always thinks this girl should have fun as
| long as I don't break the
*Night Spirit [HOST] | cardinal rules
effy <busy> | what exactly is the differnce between sub and slave?
effy <busy> | i have my own ideas, but they are not matching up
| to what y'all are
effy <busy> | referring to
MadAtTimes | is it fair to say training becomes joint
| exploration in along term
MadAtTimes | relationship?
MoL's Katie J | Training, Beorn and suchy
Erek & kisa | LR - not po'ed, but curious about the percieved
| attitude
MadAtTimes | the Dom still leads
*Spartan* | no, i am sorry, we have it and tina is familiar
| with it
*Spartan* | tho...........................
o | no...Spartan..i would not have to...because my
| Master's slaves are always free to leave Him...
MadAtTimes | but you both know the path youwish to follow?
Lady Rapunzel | Surely training is the same for us as for vanilla
| people, who have to learn about each other to
| continue to grow within a
Lady Rapunzel | relationship?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | good thought MAT
Beorn & suchy | ( exactly what suchy needs these days .. RE
| trarining )
Lady Rapunzel | Isn't that all it is?
o | the writer of that...claims that she does not have
| the right to leave her Master
*Spartan* | effy, a slave is just
*Spartan* | subserviant.........................................
| ...................
Erek & kisa | Maybe I need to emoticon more <;)
Lady Rapunzel | <smile> Erek
effy <busy> | then slaves do not have the right to leave
*Spartan* | then he is an ass too....<sorry imho>
o | no i disagree Spartan...a slave...is a total
| submissive...not subservient
Lady Rapunzel | Everyone has the right to everything.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Good Lady R
Lady Rapunzel | o, slaves, have the right to leave.
*Spartan* | in what way o ?
Lady Rapunzel | Everyone does.
effy <busy> | <allconfused and hushing>
o | i have the right effy because my Master grants it
| to me...but i could and will never
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I do---if Owner is a jerk why the hell would I
| waste my life with him--after
*Night Spirit [HOST] | all had that my last marriage
o | my Master's slaves do LR
Lady Rapunzel | You would have the right, o, even if he didn't
| grant it.
*Spartan* | a slave does *not* have to subvmit to serve or to
| be a
*Spartan* | slave....................................!!!!!!!!!!!
| !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lady Rapunzel | Spartan, easy now... you know who we are talking
| with about this.
o | so how do you define slave Spartan?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yes Spartan what is a slave to you?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Suppose he started to beat you every day, not
| scene, punishment, just because
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | he felt like it o?
Dakini | yes actual real life legaly supported slavery was
| abolished some time ago
Lady Rapunzel | She'd take it.
Erek & kisa | It's a courtesy to *ask for release, but if the
| situation has gone to hell, don't bother - leave
| and don't look back.
*Spartan* | subservient......simple....period....one who
| serves, has the need to
Lady Rapunzel | You know the answer, GrPa.
o | LR...i am not permitted to answer those questions
Lady Rapunzel | Here we go again.
GeorgeOTJ | Many slaves figure they give up that right when they
GeorgeOTJ | enter into slavery from what I understand.
effy <busy> | but Spartan -- isn't that also a submissive?
*Spartan* | thats it o ..................very simple
Beorn & suchy | i am lost ..
Lady Rapunzel | They *choose*, as do we all.
o | i disagree with your definition
Beorn & suchy | somone inform me ..
Lady Rapunzel | It is still a choice.
Erek & kisa | This ain't Bor <not a typo>
o | sorry GPDS...i am not permitted to answer your
| question
Lady Rapunzel | Come on, guys, we *know* all this.
Dakini | yes geroge but such slavery is no longer leagaly
| sanctioned in our society
*Night Spirit [HOST] | George this is true--but once again it all comes
| down to communications before
*Night Spirit [HOST] | during and after training
Lady Rapunzel | We know that everyone has their own definitions
*Spartan* | no effy, a sub can be a slave, and a slave can
| submit, but in pure deffinition
*Spartan* | there is a difference..........
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | NS is my property because, AND ONLY BECAUSE, she
| consents to be that!
Lady Rapunzel | We know that everyone has their own right to choose.
MadAtTimes | well said GPDS
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R are you sure on that
effy <busy> | <<taking back question>>
effy <busy> | back to training, please?
Lady Rapunzel | Even o would agree with that.
Dakini | exactly gpds
Erek & kisa | LR - Some do give up that right <shrug> Different
| strokes, etc.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | there are Master/Mistresses once you are in--you
| are in forever until they
*Night Spirit [HOST] | release you
o | yes LR...all i object to is people imposing their
| definitions on me <s>
Lady Rapunzel | Exactly. So can we get back to training?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | question if you do it and join it--is it still free
| will
Lady Aireanna (busy) | my goodness...................i am late for a very
| very wisual
Lady Aireanna (busy) | discussion............forgive me for me lateness NS
| and GPDS
Dakini | yes but they still CAN leave NS
Lady Aireanna (busy) | <s>
o | hey...it was me who answered NS's last question...
Dakini | if they chose to
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Night LA
*Night Spirit [HOST] | part of training is finding out what you are
| getting in to--I think basic
*Night Spirit [HOST] | training is like a dating period
*Spartan* | no one is imposing deffinitions on u o, if u r a
| slave and u find urself in a
*Spartan* | position to submit, great, but u do not have to to
| be a slave....thats
*Spartan* | all.......................
Lady Rapunzel | It *is* that.
Lady Rapunzel | It's not *like* it.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs Lady A
Lady Rapunzel | It *is* dating.
Lady Rapunzel | We just do it with whips <shrug>
Lady Aireanna (busy) | <s>
*Spartan* | <perk>..wips...
effy <busy> | <chuckling>
MoL's Katie J | what the relationship is, is what o and her Master
| define it to be ..no more or
MoL's Katie J | less than any Master/sub relationship.
Lady Rapunzel | <chuckle>
*Spartan* | yes katie
Lady Rapunzel | Okay, I have a question for the crowd.....
Erek & kisa | Katie - A BINGO <g>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | true Katie--like ours is what we defined
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yes Lady R?
Lady Rapunzel | Give me one word at a time... things that training
| involves. One word each. Go.
o | Master/slave...KJ...but yes...of course...it's just
| i do not consider myself subservient...that to
| me..is about running around
o | after every guy who walks in calling them...sir...
MadAtTimes | Control
*~tina~* | safe sane and CONSENUAL...no better words to live
| by....IMHO
GeorgeOTJ | Understanding
Lady Aireanna (busy) | Mind
*Night Spirit [HOST] | love
Lady Rapunzel | Any more?
Lady Aireanna (busy) | Phycoligical
o | growth
*Night Spirit [HOST] | trust
Beorn & suchy | Freedom
MadAtTimes | Honour
Lady Aireanna (busy) | \<<<<can't spell>>>>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | safewords love pain obedience
Lady Rapunzel | Now look at all those words.
Lady Aireanna (busy) | peace
*Spartan* | wrong o , it means u just serve, plain , simple,
| no feelings
*Spartan* | etc........................
*~tina~* | choice
MoL's Katie J | no, o .. between your Master and you .. certainly
| Spartan did not mean
MoL's Katie J | subservient to include any male wandering into your
| immediate area.
Lady Rapunzel | Tell me a relationship in this world where those
| things are *not* considered in some way, during the
| beginning of a relationship.
Erek & kisa | acclimation
o | Spartan...please do not do what you said you are
| not doing...that is your definition...not mine
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Pain???
Lady Aireanna (busy) | ONE WORD........
Lady Rapunzel | Pain, GrPa?
Lady Aireanna (busy) | are you kidding
Erek & kisa | LR - I've said for years that you should be friends
| first, play partners later
Lady Rapunzel | You think there is no pain in other relationships?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | my relationships in the last 20 yrs have not been
| vanilla--I forgot what that is
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | In non-d/s relationships?
*Spartan* | no o , that is the
*Spartan* | deffinition................simple...................
| .maybe not haow it fits ur
*Spartan* | relationship , but that *is* it............
effy <busy> | i think in other relationshps there is more pain
| because there is not the honesty there
o | KJ...to me the words submissive and
| subservient...are totally totally different
MadAtTimes | what is missing is the possibilty of physical harm
| as an agreed component
Lady Rapunzel | Pain, for us, if we look at it purely and simply,
| is a sex-toy, GrPa. That is not what I thought we
| were discussing here.
MadAtTimes | of the relationship
o | says who Spartan?
effy <busy> | there is more confusion and --- feeling in the dark
Erek & kisa | o - as kisa says - she is a sexual submissive, not
| a submisive personality
MoL's Katie J | yes it is how we each define the words, and choose
| to use the words to define
MoL's Katie J | ourselves .. that's part of the point of these
| conferences.
*Spartan* | look em up in the dictionary
Lady Rapunzel | But the physical risks we take are sexually
| oriented.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | You asked for one word that dis not apply to all
| relationships.
*Spartan* | serve then submissive
Lady Aireanna (busy) | not even
*Spartan* | easy deffinitons to understand
Lady Aireanna (busy) | LR!!!!!!!!
MoL's Katie J | as we learn what others think, we can better define
| what we think ourselves.
Lady Rapunzel | Forget sex... is there nothing else in our training
| than sex?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I do not necessarily agree it is only a sex-toy
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R not true at all our relationship is based on
| sadomasochism---it brought
*Night Spirit [HOST] | us together--it is very important in our lives
Lady Aireanna (busy) | ]geeeeezzzzzz.
effy <busy> | i think a good word for training -- my word is
| reliance.
Lady Rapunzel | <laughing> Okay, so what do we use pain for?
*~tina~* | good one effy
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Control
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Pain is how I get through my day--he don't deliver
| I give it to myself
Lady Rapunzel | Come on, don't just say "geez". I challenge you
| guys so that you can make your point, not shake
| your head at me like I am an
Lady Rapunzel | imbecile.
Beorn & suchy | Painn is used for Freedom <S> in my wsubmissive
| little opinion /
o | Spartan...as was said earlier...that is
| still...only one person's definition...i am a
| slave...different to all others who would
o | claim that...as...everyone is different...i make no
| claims about or for others...only myself
Dakini | pain is excitement
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Pleasure
*Michael's nikki* | I think, Spartan, you have to define the difference
| between a cyber slave and a
*Michael's nikki* | 3d one, don't you???
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Satisfaction, non-sexual included
Dakini | good point nikki
Lady Rapunzel | But we use pain for the physical pleasures, don't
| we?
MadAtTimes | a good workout???? <LAFFING>
Lady Rapunzel | It's all physical, isn't it?
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Sometimes
Lady Rapunzel | What else, GrPa?
Redhead (f) | Mind igf I barge in?
Lord Excalibur | no LR its not
Lady Rapunzel | Come on... you all do this...
Beorn & suchy | < pinching myself to see if i am here >
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | When we punish, it is for control
GeorgeOTJ | Isn't a lot of what we do "Mind Sex"? I mean it may
GeorgeOTJ | not be a physical act but we derive great pleasure
GeorgeOTJ | from it, sometimes to a euphoric state, so what else
GeorgeOTJ | do you call it besides mind sex?
effy <busy> | i thought it was primarily mental -- with the
| physicality being thrown in as a bonus :))
*Michael's nikki* | HUGS suchy...
Erek & kisa | LR - Yes - sensation, pain even, is used that way,
| but not all training means pain
marie | some people process the pain to pleasure yes, some
| for the sensation play only
marie | no emmotional attachment (bottoming) some just like
| the pain for the sake of
marie | pina
Lady Rapunzel | And you use pain for punishment *and* pleasure?
Dakini | its not physical for me rap, the feelings it iduces
| are the most important part
Dakini | of it
*Night Spirit [HOST] | so let's all give one last statement on
| training--we know communication, love,
*Night Spirit [HOST] | trust, discussing the do and don't, building
| confidence, and begin a growth
*Night Spirit [HOST] | together--anything else?
*Spartan* | no, katie/o i do not, simple terms, and o i
| believe u r confusing this with
*Spartan* | emotions, dont hon, a slave is to serve, thats it,
| a submissive is in a
*Spartan* | position of a giving of herself, if u find urself
| in a position of giving o
*Spartan* | then i think u need to rethink what u consider
| urself...................
Anja | is it really physical..or more menta?
Beorn & suchy | We use pain for punishment and pleasure .. yes .
Anja | mental that is
Lady Rapunzel | How confusing.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Yes Lady R, depending on what it is for, and how
| she sees my attitude.
*mystic rain* | <totally confused>
Lady Rapunzel | I feel pain... do I know which it is? Punishment or
| pleasure?
Lady Rapunzel | Is that a part of training?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I do Lady R
effy <busy> | <sitting with mysti in the confused bleachers>
Lady Aireanna (busy) | so do I LR
*mystic rain* | s@ effy
Lord Excalibur | we discussed this earlier Lr
Erek & kisa | LR - possibly you take it as one or the other from
| the context?
*Night Spirit [HOST] | ok any other last words of wisedom?
MadAtTimes | one should never confuse punsishment pain and pain
| adminsitered purely
MadAtTimes | for pleasure
Lady Rapunzel | Context. Okay... so training is *only* about the
| meaning of pain?
MadAtTimes | nooooo
*Night Spirit [HOST] | I agree MAT
Erek & kisa | NO
*Spartan* | no
*Spartan* | no
*Spartan* | no
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I make darned sure she does know when it's
| punishment
*Spartan* | no
*Michael's nikki* | NO......
Dakini | no
effy <busy> | but isnt the difference primarily mental, MAT?
Lord Excalibur | the way in which pain is administered is how it is
| taken by the sub/slave
*~tina~* | <words of wisdom NS>.....thank you very
| much......wonderful CO tonight <grins>
MadAtTimes | you missed the whole section on control without pain
o | as i said Spartan...what i am and what i call
| myself...is....bewteen Master and me...i know what
| i am...Who's i am...and that is
o | all that matters to me...
Lady Rapunzel | Well, that's the only thing I can see here that
| differs from vanilla.
*Spartan* | SWATTIN Rapp again
Erek & kisa | I disagree that training even has to engender pain
*Night Spirit [HOST] | no Lady R--communications, trust, what is and isn't
| allowed, pleasure pain,
*Night Spirit [HOST] | love and a beginning
Lady Rapunzel | Okay... control... is *that* all training is?
MadAtTimes | well effy - pain can be used to teach a
| lesson/punish
Lady Aireanna (busy) | My submission to my Master................is my
| peace...........
Lady Rapunzel | Is training just making a decision about who is in
| charge?
Lady Aireanna (busy) | thats all that matters to me.
MadAtTimes | other times it can be administred/received just for
| the sheer joy of it
Erek & kisa | LR - or reenforcing that decision/agreement
Lady Rapunzel | Who is in charge and how to have fun... that's it,
| then?
Lady Aireanna (busy) | there are alot of words here...........
Beorn & suchy | No Lady Rap .. let me sttep for a second .. when
| Master Beorn punishes Moi ...
Beorn & suchy | He lets me know under No uncertain terms EXACTLY
| what i am getting punished for
Beorn & suchy | .. and tells me * you WIL NOT * enjoy this .. * he
| uses his BIG DOM GOD voice
Beorn & suchy | .. and i know i am in trouble .. and being punished
| .. ( in fact *IF * i get
Beorn & suchy | to bold as to enjoy it in some .. erotic kinda way
| ... i REALLY get in big
Beorn & suchy | trouble ...
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I trust NS more in three years we have been
| together, than I did my ex-wife in
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | 30+ years of marriage (vanilla)
*Night Spirit [HOST] | no Lady R--training is like the dating phase of
| vanilla gets you both to know
*Night Spirit [HOST] | where the relationship is heading
effy <busy> | so the difference, regarless of your frame of mind,
| has to be that your sub understands that it
effy <busy> | is punishment, no, Mad?
GeorgeOTJ | I like that definition NS
MadAtTimes | traing gets both to a stage where each is what the
| other wants
Lady Rapunzel | So we are like vanilla people then.. why do we
| label it?
MadAtTimes | indeed effy
Lady Rapunzel | Why call it "TRAINING" <add reverb>
*Spartan* | well then o , enjoy, this simple understanding
| seems to be beyond what and
*Spartan* | where it originally started from......i am happy
| that u r happy , and that u
*Spartan* | and ur Master can be in a place u both know and
| enjoy......<s>
marie | LR it's the nature of our society to label.. i
| don't agree with it.. but it
marie | exist
*Night Spirit [HOST] | because in my case I am on all 4s on a
| leash...can't go to the movies to well
*Night Spirit [HOST] | like that
Dakini | because its ofetn formalised or ritualised lady rap
Lady Rapunzel | Why do we ritualise?
Eldersign | Rap...we do it so we don't address the fact that
| vanillas,
Eldersign | doing what we do, are actually liable for legal
| redress. :grin:
Lady Rapunzel | Ahhh
Lady Rapunzel | I see
Erek & kisa | LR- good question - but what do you think makes us
| different from "vaniallas"?
Lady Rapunzel | It's a WE WANT TO BE ACCEPTED, DAMMIT thing?
Lady Aireanna (busy) | life is so precious................in vanilla or
| D/s.....................should
Lady Aireanna (busy) | we not learn to love it either way and adore the
| life it offers.
Dakini | cos its fun lady rap
MoL's Katie J | > "Men are like a fine wine... They all start out
| like grapes, and it's our
MoL's Katie J | job to stomp on them and keep them in the dark
| until they mature into something
MoL's Katie J | you'd want to have dinner with."
Anja | training = laying down the rules...so each other
| knows what to expect
effy <busy> | redress? were thet given permission to re-dress?
| <smartass side sneaking out>
MoL's Katie J | whoops .. wrong conference.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I'll tell MOL that Katie.
Eldersign | :where the heck is MoL?:
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Anja theryou have it
Lord Excalibur | excuse me I thought this CO was about training
| methods, not why do, or why
Lord Excalibur | should we train
GeorgeOTJ | <laffin>
*Spartan* | yea and opinions are like assholes, everybodys got
| one
o | Spartan...i believe...it is everyone's right to
| choose to be...and do...as...meets their
| needs...providing that in doing so
o | they...hurt no-one...and i believe that everyone is
| different...all relationships...vanilla and D/s
Anja | thanks NS...i am a training coordinator...<s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | and this CO is about to end
Lady Rapunzel | Shouldn't we know what we are doing, before we
| start doing it, LE?
Lady Aireanna (busy) | goodnight NS
Lord Excalibur | I do LR
Erek & kisa | LR - Exactly my question earlier on
Beorn & suchy | Thank you Night Spirit and Grand Pa <S> hugggs and
| kisses and a shake <S>
effy <busy> | tangents, LE, always the tangent
Mary | why in the world would you want to know what you
Mary | are doing before you start doing it......did you
| know
Mary | how to walk before you started walking as a toddler?
Mary | <G>
MoL's Katie J | we'll have to do this one again :)
MadAtTimes | yes thanks again you two
Lady Rapunzel | Great. Write the book, LE. I'm sure we'd all be
| grateful.
MoL's Katie J | Good CO, people!
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs kisses and licks to Katie and GrPa..and Lady
| R--please next time stick to
*Night Spirit [HOST] | the subject
GeorgeOTJ | Thanks folks
Beorn & suchy | what do you mean AGAIN KAtie ? we will have to DO
| it .. !
*~tina~* | <appauds everyones insightfulness tonight >
MadAtTimes | yanno this would be a 10 minute convo over a round
| of drinks
MadAtTimes | <G>
Erek & kisa | NS, GdPa, Katie - sorry to have been so late -
| looks like it was a lively one <g>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | we all need to do that
Lady Aireanna (busy) | <S>
*mystic rain* | thank you ...night everyone
*Night Spirit [HOST] | MAT <wink>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Night all, and a big thank you to MOL's katie who
| is also a co-host
Mary | Thanks for a great CO, everyone!
Beorn & suchy | Thank you too KAtie <S.d arling
MoL's Katie J | Thanks GrandPa and NS :)
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <--can't imagine a CO without little sis
Lord Excalibur | night GPDS NS and Katie
Lady Aireanna (busy) | Katie..............always so good dear....!!!!
MadAtTimes | good as always here :)
MoL's Katie J | I'm just the sheepdog here <G>
Lady Aireanna (busy) | no way
Dakini | arent there ever fist fights in these conferences
| anymore ? <s>
Lady Aireanna (busy) | your the hearder
*Michael's nikki* | HUGS GDS and Night Spirit........great as
| aalways.....and <HUGS> to Katie
*Michael's nikki* | <smoochies>
Mary | with a loud bark and driving quite a herd, I would
| say,
Mary | Katie!
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Oh, want a bowl of water Katie?
Lady Rapunzel | NS, I rather resent that remark, strangely.
effy | we need a border collie for these discussions :)
MoL's Katie J | <panting>
MadAtTimes | not since you clamed down Dak <g,d,r>
Lady Aireanna (busy) | oh geeeeeeeez
Dakini | <s>
Lord Excalibur | LR I will not rise to your offensiveness
Lady Aireanna (busy) | get up!!!!
*Spartan* | yes o... u r correct, all relationships are
| different....but, well , i guess
*Spartan* | that u seem to want to carry things a bit into the
| relm of where u and ur
*Spartan* | Master are, rather than the acknowledgement of
| just what u said........but the
*Spartan* | basis is a common, one, and i am sorry if u dont
| like hearing some of this or
*Spartan* | what the implications may be within ur
| relationship, yeas all are different and
*Spartan* | i am glad for all....<s>....i feel this topic is a
| dead one, ..would u care to
*Spartan* | discuss something else hon ??????
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Lady R I am sorry but CO rules state topics are
| discussed and those in them
*Night Spirit [HOST] | will stick to it--or the HOST will take matters in
| their own hands
*Spartan* | oh well...waisted typing again....shit
MoL's Katie J | she's gone, NS
Lady Aireanna (busy) | appauding Spatan
MoL's Katie J | never a waste, Spartan
Lady Aireanna (busy) | never
*Night Spirit [HOST] | well I have always felt we make the relationship
| what it is...not terms
Beorn & suchy | * can i vent * ? < small submisive voice ?
Mary | not wasted, Spartan! Never wasted! Your fingers
| got
Mary | lots of exercise! <G>
Lady Aireanna (busy) | <S>
Lady Aireanna (busy) | lol
effy | go for it suchy
*Michael's nikki* | Go GO, suchy
Anja | applauding Elder
*Spartan* | i thought thats why tina was here.....exercise me
| babeeeeeeeeeeeeeee<wink>...
*~tina~* | I yam I yam <s>
Beorn & suchy | God damn it ~! we all * know * i am a BRAT ! and
| need some serious SERIOUS
Beorn & suchy | training ... ! you mean to TELL ME ! i have to wait
| ANOITHE R week for some
Beorn & suchy | damned advice ?
Beorn & suchy | or maybve LONGER ???
*Spartan* | <leaning across the desk n sneakin a kiss from my
| little
*Spartan* | one>.................................
Beorn & suchy | <WEG>
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I'd hate to be her submissive I think.
effy | lol
MoL's Katie J | no, you can read the log on NS's website.
MoL's Katie J | :-)
MadAtTimes | OK all back to fan in dreamland again <Soft smile>
MadAtTimes | been fun and enlightening as ever
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | (Course, i'd hate to be anyone's submissive.)
MoL's Katie J | huggggs, Mad
Anja | another question?
Beorn & suchy | ( Smoochies NS )
MadAtTimes | hugggs Katie <s>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | yes Anja--and BTW thanks for comming
*Spartan* | come to ny suchana, ......i can...er...tina
| can....er ...we can help...<wigglin
Eldersign | If I was a domme, and GrPa or I were the
| choices...I'd
Eldersign | retire:
*Spartan* | brows>.............
MadAtTimes | nite all
Anja | my pleasure
*Michael's nikki* | suchy......go on....ask, sis???
Beorn & suchy | You ARE retired., Elder ./.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | lol
*~tina~* | lol
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | That would be a good choice Eldersign.
*Michael's nikki* | lol suchy
Eldersign | Guess so.
Beorn & suchy | this CO wasnt about training your DOM ?
Beorn & suchy | <weg>
MoL's Katie J | no, we'll do that one another time ;-)
effy | like you need any help gettin into trouble, suchy?
*Michael's nikki* | No, suchy....just about trianing in general, sis
effy | <s>
Mary | oh, I wasn't sure who was being trained here, the
Mary | Dom(me)s or the subs!!!!!!!!!!!! <LOL>
Beorn & suchy | i could ahve used some hints and suggestions ..
Lord Excalibur | well it was until LR barged in
*Night Spirit [HOST] | suchy is that possible----that's a good CO---how do
| DOMs get training
*Spartan* | i thought Anja had a question
| ????????????????????????????/
*~tina~* | wants to be ther for that one....lol
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Whoever is inviting me, I am having trouble with my
| CSI, it won't respond.
Beorn & suchy | thats a great idea , Night SPirit <S>
Anja | i thought we were supposed to be intellectual
| here...?
Wings(f) | hello <s>
MoL's Katie J | I'm the comedic relief, Anja.
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | I am going to have to log off for a sec. Will be
| right back.
Dakini | thats a good one gpds
GeorgeOTJ | You want me to be intellectual Anja? You know me
GeorgeOTJ | better than that <smirk>
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Anja we are D/s=pleasure not intellectuals <grin
| and run like hell>
MoL's Katie J | Intellectual belongs to the rest of the crowd.
Mary | intellectual is a state of mind, and I have been
Mary | searching for that state all over this country and
| have
Mary | not foudn it yet!
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | It's true DAK.
Anja | tsk..tskk...tskkk....
Erek & kisa | You know there was one thing siad that was
| misleading
Electricblueyes>M | Dommes seem to love training--they
Electricblueyes>M | are into satisfaction as much as the
Electricblueyes>M | sub--don't know 'bout doms
*~tina~* | we all can shed light on this subject....even if we
| dont agree
Dakini | hello blue
Eldersign | <- Neanderthal...not intellectual
Mary | I do agree with you there, tina!
Beorn & suchy | i am only intellectual when i have my head * up my
| ass * .. thats the only
Beorn & suchy | place i can think straight .
effy | what's that, Erek
Erek & kisa | That training was like dating - that it sorta
| stopped when the relationship settled in - was the
| implication
Erek & kisa | But we all know that's not so
Electricblueyes>M | Hi dak--<wink>
*~tina~* | agreed
Erek & kisa | Training goes on - and on and on
effy | for both parties?
Erek & kisa | Right now kisa is kneeling besides me in her new
| corset
*Spartan* | what r u really askin
| anja.............................<thinkin i missed
*Spartan* | something, common place at my age
| lately>...............
Dakini | oh no does it ?
Mary | learning takes a lifetime for both parties, effy!
GeorgeOTJ | % and the beat goes on........on the beat goes on %
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Erek to some it does--to others they like to
| graduate to full subs/slaves or
*Night Spirit [HOST] | whatever
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | Now try that invite again please.
Beorn & suchy | Erek .. i think that fro Beorn and i that * DID *
| happen .. not because we
Beorn & suchy | wanted it to ... but ( vanilla ) took over
| somewhere ..
Anja | i need some stimulation...mental...
Erek & kisa | If learning to be in a corset isn't "training", at
| least of one kind or another, I'm a very confused
| Dom <g>
MoL's Katie J | but that would only be true for that Dom/me, yes?
*Spartan* | yea, but there is allways continuing ed
| NS..............................no
*Spartan* | matter what the degree.......................
Beorn & suchy | and yes Erek, it is very good training <S>
MoL's Katie J | trained for one Dom/me would not be trained for
| another, surely
Mary | right on, Spartan!
Erek & kisa | But then I usually am a bit confused <g>
*~tina~* | <---is required to take 18 credits a year ,weg>
Dakini | general training shines through though katie surely
| ?
*Michael's nikki* | LOL tina
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | No invites?
*~tina~* | damn.....I cant take more???
*~tina~* | <wink> nikki
GrandPaDeSade[Host] | If not, I'm gonna go reboot.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | good one Spartan :) and yep Katie
MoL's Katie J | well, if you're begging, GPDS
Dakini | some people are untrainable too, after all you cant
| make a silk purse out of a
Dakini | sows ear
Anja | <scrolling thru to find the topic>
*Spartan* | if we stagnate or learning, we r doomed........to a
| life of familiarity and
Erek & kisa | I'm sorry we missed the first half of the CO
*Spartan* | monotony with the day to day...no growth means
| growth apart from each other,
*Spartan* | rather than together....
Beorn & suchy | < BLICK > chuckle <S> KAtie is so brave ..
Eldersign | :munches remaining 12 ounces of prime Angus sirloin
Eldersign | thoughtfully:
MoL's Katie J | brave or stupid.
Mary | well, it is true some are *differently trainable*
| but no
Mary | one is untrainable!
*~tina~* | at that point Dak....mebbe re evaulate?
*~tina~* | mmmm Daddy.........<proud smile>
GeorgeOTJ | Is that a government term Mary, like vertically
GeorgeOTJ | challenged instead of short?
Erek & kisa | Surely somewhere we mentioned that there are as
| many different reasons for training as there are
| different partners
Dakini | yes some times you just have to call it a day
Mary | not at all, George, it is a pc term! <LOL>
Eldersign | Mary...no one may be totally UNTRAINABLE...but
| there are
Eldersign | many who CHOOSE to be untrainable.
effy | just as there are some who are naturally pre
| trained :)
Dakini | yes
Mary | yes, Elder, I agree, life is about choices and we
| all
Mary | make them!
effy | <not talking about *me* btw>
MoL's Katie J | Most Doms would not be able to train me to tie
| their shoes.
*Spartan* | <-----stuborn nasty, mean, painful, sadistic greek
| Dom..........yet, i think i
*Spartan* | have learned from my tina many things<will not use
| the *T* word to describe
*Spartan* | it>...but in a sorts yes, we all r
| mary......................<s>.
Mary | lol, Katie!
Dakini | no i think there are definatly some who are
| untrainable
*Spartan* | forgot bastard.................
Mary | can you do velcro though, Katie?????? <LOL>
Dakini | i can think of several examples .....
MoL's Katie J | only if I wanted to, Mary
Mary | or if you choose too! <G>
*Michael's nikki* | ...perhaps someone who seems *untrainable* to one
| person......may be seen as an
*Michael's nikki* | interesting 'venture' to another though???
MoL's Katie J | same thing for me.
*Spartan* | string and some clothespins mary n I can do a mean
| zipper...<eg>
Beorn & suchy | I have a thing to tell you <S> for years and years
| i have smoked .. < and my
Beorn & suchy | favorite is in the poty> B doesnt smoke .. he has
| this nasty punishment paddle
Beorn & suchy | .. and he has been desperately trying to grt me to
| stop ( i am not allowed to
Beorn & suchy | smoke in house ) .. so .. He FINALLY says .. *
| suchana .. if I catch you
Beorn & suchy | smoking in the bathroom ever again.. infact if you
| * DO * smoke in the
Beorn & suchy | bathroom ever again .. you had better come to me
| and let me know immediately ..
Beorn & suchy | because i will lay you across my knees and paddle
| your ass with the BIG paddle
Beorn & suchy | .. like you will never ever forget .. do you
| understand ,me young lady >? " ..
Beorn & suchy | i * know * i have smoked my last cig in the poty
| ...
Erek & kisa | nikki - do you know the definition of adventure?
GeorgeOTJ | Absolutely nikki, one man's garbage is another
GeorgeOTJ | man's treasure.
Mary | hmmmmmmm, Spartan!
*Spartan* | holy shit
Erek & kisa | Someone else, having a terrible time, far away. <g>
Dakini | thats a possiblity nikki but i can also think of
| examples where people have
Dakini | taken on such "challenges" only to find later that
| they are indeed untrainalbe
*Spartan* | <handing suchana her diploma from the ...i can type
| alot Spartan school of on
*Spartan* | line>...............
*~tina~* | roflmao
MoL's Katie J | ROFL, Spartan
Beorn & suchy | Spartan you bastard .. ! ( did you say Greek ? )
Rob | ello
*Michael's nikki* | ROFL suchy
*~tina~* | <nodnod> suchy <weg>
Dakini | time for me to go
*Spartan* | <------100% greek bastard<nasty one
| too>...........proud look
*~tina~* | glad you made it Dak <s>
Mary | I'
Beorn & suchy | packing bags and < Masters bag too >
MoL's Katie J | hello, Rob .. just coming in to the tail end of a
| D/s discussion on training.
Mary | I
Dakini | goodnight all
*~tina~* | rofl......yippeee suchy
Rob | training???
GeorgeOTJ | Night Dak
Rob | how to be a sub??
Mary | I'm off everyone and I am also leaving......g'night
| and
Mary | huggs to you MoL's Katie J!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beorn & suchy | well that was * training to me .. * .. no comments
*~tina~* | nite mary <S>
MoL's Katie J | something like that .. we have conferences every
| week here.
*Spartan* | <wink suchy, i am 100% Spartan too....>.....lol,
| ya think i got this name by
MoL's Katie J | hugggggggs, Mary .. thanks for coming .. I love you!
*Spartan* | playin football at Michigan state ?
Mary | love you too sweet woman!
Eldersign | :suspects what suchy is referring to is the RESULT
| of
Eldersign | training, not training itself?:
Beorn & suchy | i thought it was because you were a bit * sparce *
| in the * TAN * area ....
GeorgeOTJ | This was my first, I must say I enjoyed it greatly,
GeorgeOTJ | thank you for having me folks.
*~tina~* | lol
MoL's Katie J | Evey week at this tme, George .. thanks for coming
| and contributing <s>
*Spartan* | <---has no tan lines.
*Spartan* | <wink>
Beorn & suchy | No, elder .. darling friend . i think .. that the
| words i needed to hear ..
Beorn & suchy | were traingin enough in that matter .. know what
| imean ?
MoL's Katie J | Glad to have you and your vine aboard.
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <--is tickled George made it :)
*Spartan* | <--- has no tan yet either ......YET
Beorn & suchy | ( please remove your clothing and prove it )
GeorgeOTJ | Have a wonderful evening all <climbs vine looking at
GeorgeOTJ | Elder suspeciously>
Eldersign | Suchy, my point is...the words were enough...because
Eldersign | your training made them that way...you KNEW what he
Eldersign | meant.
*Spartan* | <--- is naked....<standing up...see>
Erek & kisa | <kisa> Clothing? What's clothing?
*~tina~* | nite GOJ
Eldersign | :SNIP:
GeorgeOTJ | <swings out>
MoL's Katie J | g'nite, George
Beorn & suchy | well .. i think you might be right .. <S>
*Michael's nikki* | Woohooo! <grabbing camera and snapping quickly>
GeorgeOTJ | Damn.........foiled again
*Spartan* | nope Elder, u r too late, i already had it
| snipped.......................lol
MoL's Katie J | and i'm off .. see you all next week! or ...
| around .. huggggggggs
Eldersign | :watches George wipe out 43 feet of custom boothing.
effy | <laughing>
Beorn & suchy | < CLICK > photo at 11;00 ..
*~tina~* | nite nite Ktie
*~tina~* | Katie
*Michael's nikki* | Spartan????? You fire blanks????? <ducking>
Eldersign | God...I'm good.
MoL's Katie J | *kotc* NS
loving sub | thankyou for having me here...i enjoyed <S>
MoL's Katie J | you are always welcome, loving :)
*~tina~* | ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....shes bad........<wink at
| nikki>
Beorn & suchy | ( hears elder mumbling to HIMSELF Again _
MoL's Katie J | hugggggs, tina cutie
loving sub | thankyou Katie <s>
Eldersign | :notes he has about 4 ounces of steak left...and a
| pair of
Eldersign | sorrowful puppy eyes next to his chair:
*Night Spirit [HOST] | kisses little sis
*Spartan* | 3 kids nikki, and $1500 a month in child
| support...yup, got
*Spartan* | enuf..................dont need or want any
| more......
*Night Spirit [HOST] | <--2 kids no child support willing to sell
*~tina~* | rofl
*Spartan* | roar...................
Erek & kisa | WEll I think I'll go tkae the sub around the place
| for a good view (mine of her <g>) -- y'all take
| care, hear?
*~tina~* | nite Erik and kisa<S>
Beorn & suchy | kisses Erek and kisa <S. she looks good in that BTW
| >
Eldersign | :puts the plate on the floor...watching the
| grateful wiggle
Eldersign | from Jack:
Beorn & suchy | gonna roll outta h ere .. <S>
Erek & kisa | YEs she does <S>
Beorn & suchy | smoochies everyone !
*Michael's nikki* | LOL Spartan...point taken (pardon the pun)
*~tina~* | byebye all.......
*Night Spirit [HOST] | hugs and kisses Erek and kisa as always lovely
| seeing you both
*Spartan* | alright all, goin back to 10................see ya
| there..........
effy | night tina
*Night Spirit [HOST] | Night spartan and tina
Erek & kisa | Also with the breast harness on above the corset
| <YUM!>
Beorn & suchy | < swats tina on the arse >
*Spartan* | kisses all....especially u Elder...<wink>......
Erek & kisa | Anyway - bye for now
Eldersign | :grins: I'd say I'm the best you ever had,
| Spartan...but
Eldersign | YOU, I can't say it to.
effy | <thinking of all Spartan's playmates>
effy | he gets all the GOOD ones!
*Michael's nikki* | Bye Erik and kisa <HUGS>
********** 6/14/98 6:36 PM End logging Sub Pub - D/s.